bernerbrau

Recipes 

I'm starting to get frustrated here. I've been doing lagers for about a year now, and all except one have come out tasting like friggin' Boone's Farm. Cold crashing and gelatin have helped, and friends really like my lagers, but from a technical perspective, it's still a flaw.

I'd say the issue is underpitching, but this Sunday I drew a sample from my next-to-latest pilsner, into which I pitched a 2-step starter, 1 gallon each, aerated on a stirplate. Bam. Aroma, palate, finish, Hawaiian Punch. Now, it hasn't lagered yet, but I'm not finding any good information on just which off-flavors are cleaned up during the lagering phase, and due to my previous results I'm somewhat pessimistic about the final product.

I'm fermenting these in a chest freezer hooked up to an analog controller set at 50F. Thus far I've left the probe dangling in mid-air, but even so, I wouldn't expect it to get past 55-60F in the carboy. I've taped the probe to the side of the fermenter for my latest lager as a precaution to minimize the discrepancy.

I'm also seriously considering buying some form of aeration tool, whether that's the plastic fan blade that hooks up to a power drill, or an O2 tank with a .5 micron diffuser stone.

So, lager vets. Besides making my starters even huger, improving my aeration techniques, and more precise temperature control, any other ideas as to what I could try to make my lagers more Pilsner Urquell and less Bacardi Silver?

JoePro

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Zero in on your methods for the one that made a great lager-- what could have been different?

What are your pitching temperatures?

And as far as I know, Lagers should be seriously oxygenated and super-yeastified prior to pitching. Have you considered adding yeast nutrients? Are you using any adjuncts in your lagers?

bernerbrau

Recipes 

No adjuncts in any of my starters. Base malt and occasional specialty malts if the style calls for it.

The one lager that didn't come out super fruity (and it was semi-fruity until cold crashing in the keg cleared it up) was a repitch onto a yeast cake from a 3-gallon batch, with somewhat high IBUs for a lager. The frustrating thing with that one was that I was using Anchor Steam yeast, which is supposed to be super low-ester and fermentable at ale temps.

Pitching temps -- I'm chilling my wort to 70-80 then letting it sit in the freezer until it hits 50 before pitching. This may be the source of some of my issues because there's probably a lot of opportunity for the wort to de-gas the oxygen that I get from letting my chilled wort trickle into mouth of the fermenter via siphon. My most recent lager wouldn't start for 4 whole days at 50, so I brought it up to 60 just long enough for a krausen to form before bringing it back down.

I have added nutrients to the starters, but not to the actual wort. Another mistake I made with my pilsner was I didn't fully decant the starter for fear of underpitching, completely forgetting about the esters that the warm fermentation in the starter had likely produced.

JoePro

Recipes 

Bam. Make a bigger starter.

Also, when you pitch, make sure that your yeast starter is within 3-4 degrees of the wort. This will keep the yeast from being shocked thermally, and should allow them to ferment much cleaner.

bernerbrau

Recipes 

See, I'd have expected a gallon starter, decanted and pitched into another gallon starter, both fermented at 80F on a stirplate, would give me plenty more yeast than the cake from a 3-gallon no-starter cold-fermented lager.

Of course, my subsequent failure to fully decant could mean the esters came from the starter itself...

And again, higher IBUs in that batch could just mean some of the fruit flavor was masked by the bitterness.

*sigh* So many variables.

Not to discredit any of the advice of course. My next lager: more yeast, more aeration, and maybe a digital controller with a thermowell.

Yeah, once the starter is crashed I put it in the freezer set at fermentation temperature for a day or two.

JoePro

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This will definitely detract from the final product's overall quality, especially if you're introducing any sized portion of fusel-heavy, estery starter into a lager.

Here's some additional (although painstakingly anal) suggestions:

Decant the starter fully, and then add pre-boiled and cooled water to the slurry. Wait for that to settle and stratify, and then decant once more to reduce the overall concentration of the starter beer profile.. While not totally necessary, I'd try it once to see if it really makes a difference and if it does, then forge on!

Also, what yeasts are you using?

bernerbrau

Recipes 

I think about 3/4 quart of starter made it in.

Seems painstakingly anal is kind of necessary to not f*ck up a lager.

Not a bad idea. "Wash" the starter basically. I like it. I was also thinking of racking to decant, so I don't risk pouring off yeast unnecessarily.

Let's see. I'm too lazy to look them up on White Labs, but I've used San Francisco Lager, German Oktoberfest, German Bock, Czech Pilsner, and Czech Bud.

JoePro

Recipes 

Good yeasts.

Yeah, the advice I gave you should be a good base to start from.

I would go ahead and step up your starter an extra half gallon or so and "wash it". Make sure all your liquids are within the same temperature parameters to avoid thermal shock.

Oxygenate the piss out of your wort prior to pitching (you really need to be above the ambient 8ppm saturation-- invest in an aerator!). Let us know the results and good luck!

bernerbrau

Recipes 

Unfortunately, I wouldn't know

Let me see. I can rack to a sealed bucket before transferring to the freezer until it gets down to pitching temp, then when it's cold enough, rack again to the fermenter, allowing the wort to trickle in from the top so there's a lot of surface area exposure. Step 2, I get that plastic fan attachment for my power drill and run it in the fermenter on full blast for 5 minutes. With a gallon of headspace that should be fine not to splash too much wort.

Hopefully that method will be sufficient until I can convince my wife I can afford an aerator. Unfortunately I'm still carrying over a lot of "good advice" from the beginner homebrewer/ale worlds, where one is told a good shake is all we really need. Lager, as I've found, is a beast of a different color.

bernerbrau

Recipes 

Speaking of starters. I hate spending tons of money on extract, and getting sticky crap all over my kitchen. I feel like I should be able to mash a bunch of wort at high gravity, store it indefinitely until I need a starter, then dilute and boil when it's time to make a starter.

My problem is whenever I try to store wort, it gets infected within a month despite using sealed sanitized containers. Maybe freezing it would help its shelf life?