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Old 08-17-2010, 12:26 PM   #1
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Default Dry yeast strains just as good as their liquid counter parts?

So i just made a blond ale, which is a pretty easy going brew. I used White Labs 001 California Ale and it had a very clean taste, i've been told by others that SAF ALE US-05 American Ale (Chico Strain) is literally the same strain of yeast. I've never tried it but plan on it, sometimes I feel like saving time not making a starter and $$$. So could i use SAF ALE US-05 American Ale on most pale ale type brews and not notice a loss of quality and flavor?
This also made me wonder which dry yeast strains work just as well as their liquid counter parts? Why spend up to $7.00 on liquid yeast + DME (on a starter) when a $3.00 (at most) packet of dry yeast can do the same..very efficiently.

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Old 08-17-2010, 12:36 PM   #2
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I've used US-05 and been pleased with result - clean when fermented in the mid 60s, high attenuation. For a comparison between dry and liquid yeast, see this thread and scroll down http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/vs-pro-con-analysis-109318/

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Old 08-17-2010, 12:52 PM   #3
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This question has been answered to death here....there's plenty of info for you.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/dry-yeast-vs-liquid-75697/

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/dry-yeast-vs-liquid-yeast-45174/

It's a personal preference, they both make beer....I tend ot use more dry than anything else...it's way more cost effective....but there are more wet strains and you can wash an reuse or store..It's not really a vs question...they both work..It's NOT a superority thing at all....they all are excellent.

I have found that a lot of new brewers especially, THINK they HAVE to use liquid yeast, but in reality most ales can be made with Notty, Windsor, Us-05, Us-04 and many lagers with basic Saflager.....7-8 bucks a pop for liquid as opposed to $1.50-2.50 for dry, with more cell count, is imho just a waste of money for the majority of a brewer's recipe bank...most commercial ales us a limited range of strains, and those liquid strains are really the same strains that the afore mentioned dry strains cover, for example Us-05 is the famed "Chico strain", so if you are paying 7-8 bucks for Wyeast 1056 American/Chico Ale Yeast, and you STILL have to make a starter to have enough viable cells, then you are ripping yourself off, in terms of time and money....

I use dry yeast for 99% of my beers, for basic ales I use safale 05, for more british styles I us safale 04 and for basic lagers I use saflager..

The only time I use liquid yeast is if I am making a beer where the yeast drives the style, where certain flavor characteristics are derived from the yeast, such as phenols. Like Belgian beers, where you get spicy/peppery flavors from the yeast and higher temp fermentation. Or let's say a wheat beer (needing a lowly flocculant yest) or a Kholsch, where the style of the beer uses a specific yeast strain that is un available in dry form.

But if you are looking for a "clean" yeast profile, meaning about 90% of american ales, the 05, or nottingham is the way to go. Need "Bready" or yeasty for English ales, then 04 or windsor. Want a clean, low profile lager yeast- saflager usually does the trick.

Here's some info here, http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/dry-yeast-profiles-descriptions-131810/

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Old 08-17-2010, 01:52 PM   #4
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Some including me get an apple/pear note from S-05 that I don't get from WLP001 or WY1056. I have no other explanation for it than it's the yeast. But you may like that apple/pear note (if you even get/notice it). For the most part I don't like it but I keep thinking there's got to be a place for it.

Regarding the cost, I save a little there by reserving any leftover wort from batches and freezing it and using that for starters so I almost never have to use DME/LME. I always make my batches about 1 qt over my target volume into the fermenter both so I can save the extra wort and avoid getting too much break material in the fermenter, plus I have a little fudge factor built-in. Then I wash the yeast and reuse for a few batches so for each smackpack/vial I usually get several batches from just one pack/vial and one starter (of course you could always wash/reuse dry yeast too).

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Old 08-17-2010, 02:03 PM   #5
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Another option is to go to a local brewery and ask them for yeast. (probably not an option for you in Nome, AK).

the brewmaster at my local craftbrewery is very cool about this. i stop by the brewery around his lunchtime at the pub, hand him a sanitized mason jar and a 22 bottle of the last thing i brewed. i come back later that night and the jar is waiting for me in the pub.

it's a huge cell count and i never need to make a starter. and it's free!

and the yeast i get is always 1056, although they have the 1007 used for alts and dunkelweizens as well.

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Old 08-17-2010, 02:05 PM   #6
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For me, Safale-05 makes the most sense. I decided early this year (on the advice of a local brewer) to stick to a single strain and then experiment with it continuously for a year. That's what I've been doing with Safale-05 -- and I've learned a *lot* from not only watching the fermentations, but tasting the experiments.

I'll agree with the post above that Safale-05 has some interesting fruity flavors at low temperatures (56F-58F). I've posted about these over the past few weeks -- and my interesting results -- so I won't post again, but I've been very happy with 05 for nearly everything. I say *nearly* because I cheated and use Wyeast's 'Kolsch ii' a couple weeks ago and started off my brewing season with a hef using Wyeast 3068 (both turned out great at my usual cool temps -- 56F for the Kolsch and 60F for the hef.) I also used Pacman for one brew, but my understanding (and I might be wrong) is that Pacman is a variation of 05 anyway. (I got around 88% attenuation with it when I fermented it at 60F in NB's 'Twelth Night Stout.' It certainly has a similar overamp'd quality to it that I see with 05.)

I've brewed a variety of beers over the past several months -- ranging from 1.040 to 1.075ish -- and for each one I've pitched two packets of 05. More than I need I know, but so far the results of the overpitching -- especially with the low grav beers -- have been superb. Mainly, I didn't want to go the 1.5 11gram packets because then I'd be wasting a half packet -- so I figured what the hell and standardized the pitching for every beer. I'm sure those with more experience will say this is not a good idea, but these might be the same folks who warned me against pitching 05 in the mid- to high-50's.

What I've learned is that I like the simplicity of dry yeast. No starters, very cheap, and easy to pitch. I've also learned that the two times I've forgotten to inject O2 into the wort has resulted in an over-the-top sweet flavor with 05 that does not go away as the beer ages. It minimizes, but it's there -- and it's not pleasant. I take it the flavor was essentially yeast stress exacerbated by the low temps. I've been doing 90 seconds of O2 in the fermenter immediately after brewing -- and then another 60 secs 12-14 hours into the fermentation.

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Old 08-17-2010, 02:16 PM   #7
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I have used both over the years. But now I pretty much always use dry unless it's a strain only available in liquid.

cheaper, easier, no starter. quick lag time, no worries about shipping in summertime. Just sprinkle on top after aerating and done.

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Old 08-17-2010, 10:05 PM   #8
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I can't tell the difference in results between WLP001 and S-05, so when I making a brew that needs something like that, I use the S-05.
But I notice a great difference between WLP002 and S-04. (Not surprising as they are different yeasts). I love the 002, but not the S-04, so in that case I use the liquid.

-a.

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Old 08-17-2010, 11:08 PM   #9
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I have used both and for me I like the liquid Much better. This is my opinion and after 100's of gallons brewed I just prefer the liquid.

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Old 08-17-2010, 11:16 PM   #10
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the only real good advice I can offer is that free advice on the Internet is worth every cent you paid for it. Best way is to play with your beer. Experiment, and make up your own damn mind. Everyone's got their own tastes.

For my money, though, dry yeasts are only suitable for dry, clean ales. None of them have an ester profile that agrees with me (whether that's an innate problem with drying, or just a function of poor selection, I can't say). If you brew a lot of dry, clean, american-style beers, then they're the bees knees (or cat's pyjamas, even). If you like more characterful yeasts (even for american beers), they they're kind of, well, ass. There's just no equivalent to WY1272 in the dry yeasts, or to WY1028, or 1084, or 1968, or 3724.

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