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Old 08-11-2009, 06:29 PM   #1
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Default Dry Yeast Profiles/Descriptions

I'm gathering together some info for dry yeasts, noting things like attenuation, floculation, ester/flavor profiles, temp ranges and the like.

There's a little bit of sketchy info about the Danstar and Lallemand yeasts but not much about Muntons or Coopers. I hoping for feedback from people who have used these enough to help nail down some of these characteristics.

The Yeasts in question are:

Safale US-05
Safale S-04
Safbrew S-33
Nottingham
Windsor
Muntons
Coopers

Are these equivalent to any particular liquid yeast strains? I've heard Windsor is the Whitbread strain. True?

I've been using Notty for a long tome and am getting a little bored with it.

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Old 08-11-2009, 06:56 PM   #2
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US-05 is California Ale Yeast/Chico Strain.

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Old 08-11-2009, 06:59 PM   #3
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Each dry yeast is roughly equivalent to a certain liquid strain, but not entirely equivalent.

The overall flavor of each dry yeast is slightly different from the liquid counterpart. For example, safale US-05 is said to have a slight peach flavor that isn't present in the liquid version.

All of the dry packets are different in terms of pitching rates too. It's kind of the luck of the draw. If your packet is fresh and hasn't been mishandled, you'll have an accurate pitching rate. Otherwise you'll be under-pitching (depending on your OG) and get some off-flavors. If you rehydrate and avoid temperature shock, you'll keep these to a minimum.

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Old 08-11-2009, 07:44 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prionburger View Post
Each dry yeast is roughly equivalent to a certain liquid strain, but not entirely equivalent.
Understood. I'm looking for specifics though.

Knowing 05 is similar to the Chico strain is very useful.

Recently I've been enjoying beers with a maltier profile so I'm especially curious about what people have to say about Windsor, Safale S-04 and Muntons though I'd like to get a better handle on all the yeasts in my original post.
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:01 PM   #5
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Here's what I've got so far in terms of rough equivalency:

Safale US-05 - Wyeast 1056/Chico
Safale S-04 - Wyeast 1099/Whitbread
Safbrew S-33 - ?
Nottingham - Bass?
Windsor - Wyeast 1968/Fullers
Muntons - ?
Coopers - ?

Lots of question marks.

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Fermenting: Carbon's Grizzly Bear, Young's Special London Ale (clone)

Bottled/Conditioning:Siberian Raven Winter Ale, Cherry Tree Porter, Victoria's Dirty Secret

Drinking: Montgomery Scottish Ale, Thames American Bitter, Crow's Beak Old Ale, Bastet Brown, Carbon's Cascade Ale, Red Silo Honey IPA


Last edited by carbon111; 08-11-2009 at 08:46 PM. Reason: edits
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prionburger View Post
Each dry yeast is roughly equivalent to a certain liquid strain, but not entirely equivalent.

The overall flavor of each dry yeast is slightly different from the liquid counterpart. For example, safale US-05 is said to have a slight peach flavor that isn't present in the liquid version.

All of the dry packets are different in terms of pitching rates too. It's kind of the luck of the draw. If your packet is fresh and hasn't been mishandled, you'll have an accurate pitching rate. Otherwise you'll be under-pitching (depending on your OG) and get some off-flavors. If you rehydrate and avoid temperature shock, you'll keep these to a minimum.
?????????????????????????????????????????


I've never heard any of this in all my years of brewing....Peach flavor???

And "All dry packs are different in terms of pitching rates?"

"Luck of the draw"

What??????

I do believe that in the 21st century a company is able to measure out grams of dry ingredients pretty accurately. And millions of dollars both from the hobby and professional brewing industry would be at stake if they couldn't turn out a consistent product.

Yes, many commerial breweries use dry yeast, hence, like fermentis labs, they have industrial divisions.

And also these days most dry yeast is not mis handled, and is fresh, most stops and mail order that I know of are high turnover places, and their yeast doesn't sit on shelf in heated warehouses for months before being shipped out.

This sounds like some of the anti-dry yeast propaganda that evolved from the bad old daysbefore 1978 and legal homebrewing, when the only yeast that was available came from europe in dry cakes that may have sat in the hot cargo hold of a ship for months, then sat under the lid of a can a blue ribbon malt extract for god knows how long.

Danstars website even says this...

Quote:
The use of active dried professional yeasts for amateur brewing is a relatively new phenomenon introduced by Lallemand. Now, choose your active dried yeast for brewing with confidence. Ask for Danstar superior quality yeasts at your local retailer.
So most of those notions you have really are just biased carryovers from the bad old days.

Nowadays in most homebrew shops, just as much care is put in storing their dry yeasts and they do the liquid and the hops, in cold stoage.

So these days those ideas you may have are definitley not the truth.....Fermentis labs is not some podunk company making half asses yeast with "inconsistant pitching rates," and neither are the makers of the other dry yeast...In this day of consumer choice people wouldn't settle for crappy yeast, and those makers of dry yeast wouldn't still be in business if their products weren't any good.

Pitching a pack of dry yeast is usually over-pitching not under.

Carbon, you can find a lot of info about their yeasts, rather than mis-information and conjecture, (us-05, 04, saflage, safbrew, t-58, etc) here Fermentis : levure, levure pour alcool, levure bière, levure sèche

You can find downloadable pdfs of all the info you need for each yeast.

I've used it to add the info for beersmith (the stuff you are looking for.)

And probably at the other yeastlabs as well....yes dry yeast comes from labs too. Not scraped off the floor someplace.

Muntons | World Class Malt | Home

Danstar Premium Beer Yeasts - The Dry Yeast Advantage

(yes danstar has technical pdfs giving flocculation rate and other info as well.)

These days dry yeast is no better or worse than liguid.

Hopes the links help.

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Old 08-11-2009, 08:43 PM   #7
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Appreciate the info, Revvy. I'll dig a bit more.

However, the dry manufacturers are still pretty tightlipped about what strain is which though. You'll never get Lallemand to say "Yes, the S-04 is Whitbread" even though it is sold as such in some stores.

Another tack they take is to be vague enough in their descriptions that it sounds like a yeast is suitable for any style of ale...I guess they don't want to scare off any sales.

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Fermenting: Carbon's Grizzly Bear, Young's Special London Ale (clone)

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Old 08-12-2009, 09:26 AM   #8
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+ 1 on Revvy's suggestion to look at the downloadable PDFs from the manufacturer - lots of useful specific info.

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Old 08-12-2009, 05:53 PM   #9
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Maybe a bit of a tangent from the OP's question, but.....

Having had some attenuation issues with some of my early brewing efforts, I did hit the danstar and fermentis websites and found them very helpful. Danstar's pdf raised a question for me about Nottingham pitch rates, however, in that their guideline for an appropriate pitch rate is one gram per liter. That would make an 11 gram packet right for a 11 liter (~3 gallon) batch, rather than a 5 gallon batch. I may be totally misunderstanding what they say, though, so here it is for someone more knowledgeable than me to de-code:

4. Usage
• When 100 g active dried yeast is used to inoculate 100 litres of wort, a yeast density of 5–10 million
cells per millilitre is achieved. Brewer may experiment with the pitching rate to achieve a desired beer
style or to suit processing conditions.
Another interesting tidbit I gleaned from the pdf concerns wort not needing aeration:
• Nottingham British Ale yeast has been conditioned to survive rehydration. The yeast contains an
adequate reservoir of carbohydrates and unsaturated fatty acids to achieve active growth. It is
unnecessary to aerate wort.
Back to the OP's question:
In my brief brewing experience, I was disappointed in Munton Ale Yeast (the one that is not their "Premium Gold"), and the munton's website info actually does state that their base yeast is not appropriate for all-malt brewer's (which of course I read AFTER using it in a fermentation that stuck around 1.020).
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artguy View Post
In my brief brewing experience, I was disappointed in Munton Ale Yeast (the one that is not their "Premium Gold"), and the munton's website info actually does state that their base yeast is not appropriate for all-malt brewer's (which of course I read AFTER using it in a fermentation that stuck around 1.020).
Good to know. I've got a couple of packs laying around somewhere that I'll try in a braggot or somesuch with loads of sugar.

I'd still like to get a handle on strain equivalency, if any, on the "unknowns":

Safale US-05 - Wyeast 1056/Chico
Safale S-04 - Wyeast 1099/Whitbread
Safbrew S-33 - ?
Nottingham - Bass?
Windsor ~ Wyeast 1968?/Fullers?
Muntons - ?
Coopers - ?
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My beer blog: http://brewdujour.blogspot.com
My website: http://www.carbon111.com


Fermenting: Carbon's Grizzly Bear, Young's Special London Ale (clone)

Bottled/Conditioning:Siberian Raven Winter Ale, Cherry Tree Porter, Victoria's Dirty Secret

Drinking: Montgomery Scottish Ale, Thames American Bitter, Crow's Beak Old Ale, Bastet Brown, Carbon's Cascade Ale, Red Silo Honey IPA


Last edited by carbon111; 08-13-2009 at 03:56 PM.
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