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Old 04-04-2014, 03:56 PM   #81
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I recommend reading "Yeast", which is part of the brewing element series. I never turkey grasped the importance of proper pitching rates until I read the book. I noticed an improvement in my beer quality after I began using a stir plate and pitching calculators. The addition of a temperature controlled fermentation chamber greatly improved my quality as well. I was able to construct a stir plate for under $30. The biggest expense was the 5L flask which was $40. I wish I would have made proper starters from the beginning of my brewing career. There are son many recipes I've made that I know would have turned out great if I pitched the proper amount of yeast and controlled the temperature.

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Old 04-04-2014, 04:41 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOldUR View Post
So, you're saying that you haven't read any creditable blind taste studies comparing a measured 30% direct under pitch with a measured "correct" pitch from a starter. Which, by the way, is what is mentioned in Yeast as being equivalent.

The “bent reality” was a legitimate example of a way of achieving a desired pitch rate while direct pitching and not having to buy two pack. Any “willfully ignorant bias” is coming from you by making blanket statements. This thread is a constructive debate. Please take your insults somewhere else.
I'm saying that commonly accepted pitch rates used by the reputable calculators have been arrived at by decades of study, experimentation, and statistically sound blind triangle test sampling. This subject is hard science, and not up for "debate", as some like to frame it.

"Willfully ignorant" people choose to ignore the hard science and mountains of work done over the years by people a lot smarter than themselves becuase (1) they have no respect for it or (2) it clashes with their limited personal experience and/or subjective biases.

Don't mistake directness for an insult.

Cheers.
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Old 04-04-2014, 05:12 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by g-star View Post
I'm saying that commonly accepted pitch rates used by the reputable calculators have been arrived at by decades of study, experimentation, and statistically sound blind triangle test sampling. This subject is hard science, and not up for "debate", as some like to frame it.

"Willfully ignorant" people choose to ignore the hard science and mountains of work done over the years by people a lot smarter than themselves becuase (1) they have no respect for it or (2) it clashes with their limited personal experience and/or subjective biases.

Don't mistake directness for an insult.

Cheers.
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Old 04-04-2014, 05:28 PM   #84
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OP, starters are generally made to boost your cell count, thus increasing your pitch rate. I think that point has been established already, but I mention it again to bring the conversation back to a place where most of us can agree. Here are several experiments that have been done on pitch rate (some admittedly better than others). Read through, and perhaps search for others if you feel so inclined. Read critically - pay attention to the pitch rates and how much they differ. While you are reading, keep in mind the standard pitch rate for ales is between 750,000 and 1,000,000 cells per ml per *P. You'll be able to arrive at your own conclusion about whether starters make better beers, and you'll be able to better gauge when one may or may not be necessary. From there, if/when you've got your process down and you can make consistently good beer, do some experimenting of your own to see how different pitch rates affect your beer.

http://sciencebrewer.com/2012/03/02/pitching-rate-experiment-part-deux-results/
http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2012/06/09/pitching-rate-experiment/
http://byo.com/blogs/entry/pitching-rate-experiment
http://seanterrill.com/2010/05/09/yeast-pitching-rate-results/
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=2196.0;wap2
http://freshbeereveryfriday.blogspot.com/2010/05/pitching-rate-experiment.html

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Old 04-04-2014, 07:16 PM   #85
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