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Old 01-21-2012, 09:24 PM   #101
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Don't know where this 1.024 thing is coming from, perhaps you've forgotten to take your meds today?
Experiment at White Labs show that a half liter starter made with 100 billion cells in a method similiar to what is prescribed by Revvy will yield 112 billion cells

1,000,000 (pitch rate) X 20,000 (milliliters or wort) X 6 Plato (~1.024 sg) = 112,000,000 (cells)
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:38 PM   #102
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1,000,000 (pitch rate) X 20,000 (milliliters or wort) X 6 Plato (~1.024 sg) = 112,000,000 (cells)
how bout a 1.75L starter with a gravity of 1.04? how many cells will that produce? a half litre starter is hardly what people talk about when making a starter to ensure proper pitch rates. i really think you just wanna argue this for little or no reason. a 500 ml starter (og 1.024) would grow virtually no new cells, but a 1.5L starter at 1.04, which is more on par with what people pitch into beer, will grow cells. even just doubling the cell count of a smack pack (~70 billion cells) to ~140 or so billion cells is significant growth. now take a stir plated or regularly shaken starter of 1.5 or 1.75L at 1.040 and you'll end up with a much more appropriate cell count for avg gravity beers. quit saying that making a starter isn't important because very little growth happens in a 500ml of 1.024 starter.
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:40 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by JustLooking View Post
Experiment at White Labs show that a half liter starter made with 100 billion cells in a method similiar to what is prescribed by Revvy will yield 112 billion cells

1,000,000 (pitch rate) X 20,000 (milliliters or wort) X 6 Plato (~1.024 sg) = 112,000,000 (cells)
Your going to have to break out the crayons and draw me a picture.

I can't see anywhere in Revvy's post, where he says to make a 1/2 liter starter.

And only an idiot would assume that the jug in the photos was a 1/2 liter jug, because obviously none of the items in that photo are to scale.
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:40 PM   #104
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are you serious? have you ever made a starter? is does only take about 15 mins. stepping it up takes another 15.
Umm… that’s 30 minutes. And that’s assuming that you can get water to a boil, boil for 10 minutes and then get it chilled to 70 degrees, not to mention set up and clean up, all in 15 minutes. Be honest. On a good day, your looking at a half hour.

Not that 30 minutes is a problem. And if you don’t have an alternative, it’s time well spent. It’s the exaggerations and the dumbing down that I object to. Seems like Revvy’s plan is to fool noobs into making useless half liter starters to ease the transition into making something more substantial. Pretty silly if you ask me.

The noob would be better served with advise to brew smaller beers and direct pitch enough healthy yeast (either dry or liquid) to hit the proper pitch rate rather than make a starter that's too small to do the job. After all, isn't the object to make good beer.
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:46 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by NordeastBrewer77 View Post
how bout a 1.75L starter with a gravity of 1.04? how many cells will that produce? a half litre starter is hardly what people talk about when making a starter to ensure proper pitch rates. i really think you just wanna argue this for little or no reason. a 500 ml starter (og 1.024) would grow virtually no new cells, but a 1.5L starter at 1.04, which is more on par with what people pitch into beer, will grow cells. even just doubling the cell count of a smack pack (~70 billion cells) to ~140 or so billion cells is significant growth. now take a stir plated or regularly shaken starter of 1.5 or 1.75L at 1.040 and you'll end up with a much more appropriate cell count for avg gravity beers. quit saying that making a starter isn't important because very little growth happens in a 500ml of 1.024 starter.
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Your going to have to break out the crayons and draw me a picture.

I can't see anywhere in Revvy's post, where he says to make a 1/2 liter starter.

And only an idiot would assume that the jug in the photos was a 1/2 liter jug, because obviously none of the items in that photo are to scale.
The picture revvy posted said to boil 2 cups of water, which is 1/2 liter. And, yes, in general a 1/2 liter starter won't be very productive...
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:49 PM   #106
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Your going to have to break out the crayons and draw me a picture.

And only an idiot would assume that the jug in the photos was a 1/2 liter jug, because obviously none of the items in that photo are to scale.
Most people don't rely on crayons and pictures and know that 2 cups of water is pretty close to a half liter.
yeaststarterchart-1-.jpg  
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:56 PM   #107
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Ah, thank you for pointing that out.
No, I would not waste my time making a 500 ml starter, unless my yeast had very low viability.
The procedure outlined in the photos is what I was referring to as being a simple process.

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Old 01-21-2012, 10:09 PM   #108
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The procedure outlined in the photos is what I was referring to as being a simple process.
That's EXACTLY why I posted it, to show how SIMPLE a process it is....only an idiot or a troll would think otherwise...

And I can't figure out what he is...I'm going to hope he's just a troll...Otherwise I have little faith in humanity's capacity for intellect.....

But the standard process IS for making basic starters, beginning with two cups of water, and a half cup of dme.....

From how to brew-\
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Boil a pint (1/2 quart) of water and stir in 1/2 cup of DME. This will produce a starter of about 1.040 OG. Boil this for 10 minutes, adding a little bit of hops if you want to. Put the lid on the pan for the last couple minutes, turn off the stove and let it sit while you prepare for the next step. Adding a quarter teaspoon of yeast nutrient (vitamins, biotin, and dead yeast cells) to the starter wort is always advisable to ensure good growth. It is available from your brewshop.
\\


Oy vey....And he's really quibbling about how long it takes water to boil?????
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:19 PM   #109
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Again though, a 2 cup starter is too small to be productive at achieving a proper pitching rate.

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Old 01-21-2012, 10:28 PM   #110
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I can't believe this thread made it to 11 pages...debating starters for liquid yeast, are we seriously having this conversation? JustLooking if you're not willing to spend the extra 30 minutes to make a starter than go buy a packet of dry yeast. You'll save yourself some time/money since obviously this hobby takes up too much of your time. If more brewers took starters with liquid yeast seriously there would a big decrease in the daily number of "It's been X hours and no signs of fermentation" posts.

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