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-   -   DIY Saison yeast (fail?) (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/diy-saison-yeast-fail-366184/)

brewolero 11-07-2012 10:52 PM

DIY Saison yeast (fail?)
 
So, the only yeasts I can get here in Bolivia are the ones I pack in or the mysterious "Brewer's Yeast" available at health food stores for treating a variety of weird ailments. That said, I want to make a saison, and hearing that saison yeasts generally descend from red wine yeasts, I decided to try and throw together my own bastardized version. So I put together the following recipe:

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Honey Sage Saison No II (Saison)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.062 (P): 15.2
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (P): 3.3
Alcohol (ABV): 6.44 %
Colour (SRM): 4.1 (EBC): 8.1
Bitterness (IBU): 31.4 (Average)

55.35% Pilsner
27.67% Flaked Wheat
9.64% Cane Sugar
5.52% Flaked Oats
1.82% Aromatic Malt

1 g/L Palisade (7.8% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.6 g/L Palisade (7.8% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
0.6 g/L Palisade (7.8% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)

2.0 g/L Sage @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
1.0 g/L Sage @ 0 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 66C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 27C with Safbrew T-58 and Cuvee Premier Red Wine Yeast

Notes: 22 Sept 2012 - Transferred to secondary. SG was at 1.010, so 6.9% ABV.

Added 250 g of honey and bumped gravity up to 1.030. Actually around 3.7 L worth of drink. Depending on FG, I might dilute it down a bit.

25 Oct 2012 - Well, my hydrometer broke. So let's assume it's down to around 1.008 or so. 3.350 L were collected and I carbonated with 31 g table sugar. Probably around 9.8% ABV.

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My problem Today I opened my first one and it was completely flat. Zero carbonation whatsoever, and waaaay too sweet for decency. I have a hard time tossing this stuff, though, so I drank it anyway. My question: what happened? The red wine yeast ought to be able to tolerate a high alcohol content, right? Any ideas?
]
I have nine other bottles of this stuff, so I'll put them right back into a fermenter if I can figure out a way to salvage this batch.

ReverseApacheMaster 11-08-2012 02:32 AM

So most wine yeast spray out a killer enzyme that kills off other yeast, including beer yeast. When you put the two together in the wort the wine yeast started consuming the simple sugars and spraying out the killer enzyme, knocking out the T-58. Well that wouldn't be a problem except wine yeast generally do not ferment maltose, the major sugar in wort. So once it consumed all the glucose, which is a simple sugar, it ran out of food it could consume and went to sleep, leaving a very sweet wort unfermented.

If saison yeast descended from wine yeast, which is not at all confirmed, you will have to keep trying with various wine strains until you find a few cells that develop the enzymes to break down maltose. I have no idea how to force that process or how long it would take but I am guessing a lot more than a beer or two.

brewolero 11-08-2012 10:33 PM

Ah, thanks for the input. Two questions, then:

1) I fermented it first with T-58, and added the Red yeast after a couple weeks, along with the 250 g of honey. If I make a starter with some fresh T-58, will the enzyme leftovers knock it out?

2) If not T-58, any recommendations to help me finish this off?


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