Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > Curious... Yeast starter, but not using malt extract

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-28-2010, 04:23 AM   #1
Bad Influence
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 48
Default Curious... Yeast starter, but not using malt extract

OK, I have the books, videos, magazines, yadda, yadda, yadda.

I still get confused when I read about stressing yeast.

I have for YEARS made a simple slurry cooking water and dextrose and using that as a starter.

24 hours later, plenty of growth and then often pitch the yeast. I have done this with Wyeast (even recently) that was almost a year past it's expiration date - worked like a charm.

Is it possible..... that I've been incredibly lucky (but this much luck, I shoulda won the lottery I didn't play, right) or something else.

It's always worked, but I'm curious if anyone has an answer why I've never stressed out my yeast.

Better luck with the yeast than the ex wife!

Thanx,

Jonathan

__________________
Bad Influence is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-28-2010, 05:34 AM   #2
Frodo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Posts: 1,033
Liked 25 Times on 24 Posts
Likes Given: 16

Default

I don't think it's so much about stressing the yeast as making a bunch of lazy yeast... in other words, fermenting dextrose is as simple as it gets, so you're making a bunch of simpletons. If you use malt extract for your starter, the yeast should be able to more readily break down the complex sugars. You might just have "better" results by using DME instead of dextrose.

__________________
Frodo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-28-2010, 07:02 AM   #3
no_borders
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NH
Posts: 119
Likes Given: 2

Default

i personally wouldnt use yeast that old to begin with, its cheap enough its not worth a batch of beer ha ha. and as far as the dextrose starter goes, i agree with the lazy yeast post. you want them to consume some longer chain sugars, not be so focused on monodextrins. but if it works for you then who am i to criticise?

__________________
no_borders is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-28-2010, 08:15 AM   #4
Mateo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cooper City, Florida
Posts: 245
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Yeast are incredibly dynamic. Sure in the dextrose they get simple, but even simple fathers have bread geniuses. Give the yeast a little credit.

__________________
Mateo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-29-2010, 03:35 AM   #5
no_borders
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NH
Posts: 119
Likes Given: 2

Default

i do give the yeast plenty of credit, but why make starters of dextrose when dme is cheap and readily available and proven? if dextrose works for you congrats, but i wont switch my methods. and if dextrose works for him, he shouldnt change either i guess. but as far as ranching and everything goes i would personally never do starters of dextrose, just my 2 cents

__________________
no_borders is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-29-2010, 01:38 PM   #6
bja
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,765
Liked 95 Times on 74 Posts

Default

I've asked this same question before and got pretty much the same responses you did. Most everyone says not to do it because you'll end up with "challenged" yeast. Of course this is only what these people have read somewhere else. It seems that no one has actually tried it and experienced issues that they could trace back to the yeast starter.

BTW, I've done it before and had no problems at all.

__________________
bja is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-29-2010, 01:56 PM   #7
Ichthy
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Jackson, TN
Posts: 494
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I think the argument against using dextrose is yeast health. Wort contains essential nutrients that yeast need for proper growth.

Lazy yeast sounds like a ridiculous argument at best. They aren't lazy, they just may not be as healthy.

Here is a great write up about yeast propogation, I think it discusses some of these issues but don't recall of the top of my head.

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices

__________________

Last edited by Ichthy; 04-29-2010 at 02:15 PM.
Ichthy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-29-2010, 02:10 PM   #8
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,804
Liked 2727 Times on 1635 Posts
Likes Given: 3485

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no_borders View Post
i personally wouldnt use yeast that old to begin with, its cheap enough its not worth a batch of beer ha ha.
Why?

Bobby M recently did a test on year old stored yeast here; http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/testing-limits-yeast-viability-126707/

And my LHBS cells outdated tubes and packs of yeast dirt cheap 2-3 dollars each and I usually grab a couple tubes of belgian or other interesting yeast when I am there and shove it in my fridge. and I have never had a problem with one of those tubes.

I usually make a starter but I once pitched a year old tube of Belgian High Gravity yeast directly into a 2.5 gallon batch of a Belgian Dark Strong, and after about 4 days it took off beautifully.

Same with jarred yeast.

With any stored, old yeast you just need first to apply the "sniff test" if it smell bad, especially if it smells like week old gorilla poop in a diaper left on the side of the road in the heat of summer.

Then make a starter, and if it takes off you are fine. The purpose of a starter is to reproduce any viable cells in a batch of yeast....that;s how we can grow a starter form the dregs in a bottle of beer incrementally...and that beer may be months old.

Even if you have a few still living cells, you can grow them....That's how we can harvest a huge starter (incrementally) from the dregs in a bottle of some commercial beers. You take those few living cells and grow them into more.

If yeast can be grown from a tiny amount that has been encased in amber for 45 million years, 45 million year old yeast ferments amber ale we really don't need to sweat too much about yeast viability....

we just need to think in terms of making starters. Viability isn't really an issue if you are reproducing a lot of healthy cells. Which is what you are doing when you make a starter.....
Really even with "old yeast" if there is a few cells, they will reproduce.

There's nothing wrong with using old yeast at all...and as for cheap, even dry yeast has gone up in price this year. I used to by US-05 for $1.89 as far back as a year ago, now it is over three bucks.
__________________

Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew

Revvy is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-30-2010, 03:50 AM   #9
Bad Influence
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 48
Default

Thanx all for the replies!

The old yeast is fine...... I did that once before. It wasn't a matter of being cheap per se.... but finding out the day before (when the LHBS is closed) that the yeast is way past date. Which is what happened to me last month.

Funny REVVY should say it, but I'm a freakish nut over Belgian beers. I brew a Belgian style for every other batch I brew experimenting - and this yeast was Belgian.

Long story short, the yeast got off to a happy start (the year old stuff) and is right on target for the brew.

I agree that the "what works, works" bit. But I'm finding myself in shorter supply for malt extract since I bought all grain gear

What matters most is we have fun and enjoy the fruits of our labors.

These forums are great for asking such questions and thanx again,

Jonathan

__________________
Bad Influence is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Okay to use Liquid Malt Extract for a Yeast Starter? rockout Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 4 05-21-2012 08:25 PM
making a starter with liquid malt extract?? ethangray19 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 01-09-2011 02:30 AM
how to make yeast and malt extract Psychou Recipes/Ingredients 19 09-03-2010 06:36 PM
Yeast Starter From Malt Grain? zaireeka Fermentation & Yeast 5 02-11-2010 03:28 AM
Starter without malt extract ardentfrost General Beer Discussion 9 01-30-2010 01:15 PM