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Old 01-28-2013, 12:34 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by MachineShopBrewing View Post
If you really believe this, then I'm sorry, you need to get out more and talk to some brewers and brewery owners. You really don't know what you are talking about.

Check out this thread http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/sam-...2/index24.html

And to expand on quality being objective and not subjective-

Just because you may or may not like the flavor of a beer due to a certain ingredient or yeast, or style, doesn't mean that the beer has poor quality. Beer quality can be quantified by measurement. Beer quality is talking about having a good brewing process, managing a proper fermentation to make a clean beer, making sure to have a high quality product going into the package, with low DO and no fermentation off flavors.

Sure, a beer of poor quality will also have bad flavor usually. But, that does not necessarily mean a beer of poor flavor(subjective to your taste) is of poor quality. You may like more caramel malt in your pale ale than I do, but you can still make a quality beer both ways. You may like one, and I may like the other. But, they are both quality beers.
1. You and I are using quality differently. You are using it (as defined above ) to describ measurable things, such as off flavors, hoppiness, ABV etc. I am using it more associated with taste. Yes DF and other craft brewers make damn good beer, for their market.

2. I read over all my posts, every time I made an association comparring desirablity (subjective and related to taste) to the taster. While Sam C. and 95% of HBT can brew better quality (as you've defined it) than I, it probably won't suit my pallette - something you noted above about taste.

3. And while on taste, Sam C. can make a beer I like, but by the time he has made it, his customer base for that will be so small, that there is no way DF can sell it. Frankly I know Sam C is better brew than I for the reason he can craft a recipe, but just because he can design a flavorful recipe doesn't mean that he can sell it. Never forget that a business is about selling product, not about anyother goal except as how that leads to selling product.

There was a BYO magazine article (online available) where some guys test marketed their craft beer and nobody liked it except the brewers who started as homebrewers. The flavor was 'to strong.' Which makes sense since their testers were bud light drinkers. My point with this story is that what a homebrewer likes is often not sellable wide enough for he craft maker to make it profitably. What a given brewmaster at a craft location does for personal consumption is not something that usually reaches the bottle I buy in the store.

We will just have to disagree.
/end thread jack(for me atleast)
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:15 PM   #32
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I'll end with this-

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And while on taste, Sam C. can make a beer I like, but by the time he has made it, his customer base for that will be so small, that there is no way DF can sell it.
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There was a BYO magazine article (online available) where some guys test marketed their craft beer and nobody liked it except the brewers who started as homebrewers. The flavor was 'to strong.' Which makes sense since their testers were bud light drinkers. My point with this story is that what a homebrewer likes is often not sellable wide enough for he craft maker to make it profitably. What a given brewmaster at a craft location does for personal consumption is not something that usually reaches the bottle I buy in the store.
The last part is not true. Almost all craft brewers will tell you that they brew the beers they like to drink. Why else would you start a brewery other than to brew the kinds of beers you like? I would venture to say that >90% of craft brewers were homebrewers to start. And the BYO article can just get thrown out. That is horrible control over a taste panel if the bulk of the panelists don't even like craft beer. What did they think was going to happen. That is not a cross section of the craft beer market.

And to the first line, you must be brewing some pretty wacky stuff if you think no one else would like it. That is fine, but you underestimate the craft beer market. Like Sam said, they pushed the envelope to create some of their beers and that brought them success. His entire rant basically disputes exactly what you have been advocating on this thread.


Anyway, cheers. I wasn't really trying to be a dick about it so I hope you don't take it that way. I like good discussion and disagreement. Otherwise its just everyone patting each other on the back, and where is the fun in that?

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Old 01-28-2013, 02:58 PM   #33
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Anyway, cheers. I wasn't really trying to be a dick about it so I hope you don't take it that way. I like good discussion and disagreement. Otherwise its just everyone patting each other on the back, and where is the fun in that?
Right on
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