drummstikk

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I'm curious how you guys know that the yeast you're using came from a natural source, and not from within your brewhouse.

Unless you use sterilized glassware or pre-packaged sterile plastic tubes, along with sterile technique and autoclaved media, it's hard to know that the yeast you end up with originated on the juniper berries. Even with all the precautions, it's hard to be certain the yeast aren't domesticated strains from your previous brews.

COLObrewer

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Good question, I guess I don't know for sure, there are yeast everywhere. I suppose the fact that I sealed the jar after sterilizing and sealed it after I inserted the juniper berries and sealed it after pouring in the wort would not guarantee that the yeast came from only the juniper berries, some other yeast could have slipped in during any of those moments. I'm just happy I can get viable yeast any time I want . . . . . . . . . from somewhere.

How does anyone know that the yeast(s) they are using is the only yeast(s) that is fermenting their product? I guess if I were brewing in a sterilized, filtered brewhouse under vacuum I could know? Or would it be a sterilized, filtered, pressurized brewhouse?

JMass

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I've been to the Cantillon Brewery in Brussels a few times and I have a similar question. They pump their wort into the attic into these wide shallow containers for cooling. Supposedly that is where the wild yeast is picked up. However, I believe that they use wooden barrels for aging, etc. I'm thinking that a lot of their yeast is hanging out.

COLObrewer

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From what I understand, after they pump to the coolships, the wort cools overnight and the yeast/bugs float in through their louvered windows and also they come from their rafters/beams in the ceiling, don't ask me how they maintain a consistent product though.

Reno_eNVy

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I am most certainly giving this a try! The juniper in the Great Basin produces some stellar sahti so this time around I'll make some using the yeast. The best time for berries for our juniper is February so I'll be sure to document it on here then.

This will be awesome seeing as I'll be using every part of the juniper I harvest:
- Boil the branches and berries in all brewing liquor
- Lauter the mash through branches
- Add crushed berries with 5 minutes left in the boil
- Ferment with yeast harvested from the berries
- Extra protein from any insects hanging out on the branches

__________________
Primary: air and sadness
Kegged: Southeast Asian Wit
Bottled: Light American Lager (5/13/12), Sahti (from keg), English Barleywine (brewed 9/26/09 -- bottled 5/5/10)

LET'S GO LA!
LA CAMPIONE!
PLAY FOR GLORY, THE GLORY LA!

drummstikk

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I think that's an excellent point. Our use of single-cell cultures, shipped overnight from a lab, is good for commercial-level consistency, but almost an insult to centuries of brewing tradition. Top-cropping and lagering solved the problem of sour beer (is it really a problem anyway?) long before Hansen and Pasteur showed up.

Unless we're trying to clone a commercial style, why should we constantly be buying new pitches from a sterile-technique environment like White Labs/Wyeast?

doctorRobert

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No offense, but you guys are ridiculous.

Buying consistent yeast is an insult to brewing tradition? A tradition of accidentally soured and inconsistent beer and magical "goop" at the bottom of the fermenter maybe.

Also - I hope you guys can sanitize your equipment well enough that that you don't accidentally introduce prior yeast into your beers. If this was true, we'd all have infections almost all the time as it would be just as easy for wild yeast to also enter the brewery. While infection is probably higher than most people think (just undetectable) - only detectable infections truly matter. If you dont pitch yeast, you probably wont have fermentation, unless your sanatization is absolutely terrible.

__________________
Yo, What's Wrong With The Beer We Got? I Mean the Beer we got drank pretty Good Don't It? I Ain't Never Heard nobody complain about the beer we have..... It Drank Pretty Good. Budweiser...What's the name of some of them other beers ?

COLObrewer

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Thanx Doc, kinda the point I was trying to make, wheather we are contaminated or not, it still works, usually.

drummstikk

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Alright, I went too far there -- it's not insulting to buy cultured yeast -- this is the only way I've ever brewed after all!

But it's clearly not necessary either. This thread proves that you can make good non-sour beer with your own mixed yeast culture. It makes a lot of sense, too, when you consider that people made non-sour beer for centuries before sterile conditions were achieved in the lab. They just kept contamination down to undetectable levels (there is still some undetectable contamination after all, when we pitch a cultured yeast, as COLObrewer pointed out) and they did it using aggressive hopping, top-cropping, and lagering.

Just cracked open Phil Markowski's Farmhouse Ales book, and it turns out that traditional Saisons frequently used mixed strains of yeast that never saw a petri dish. A little reassurance!

I'm planning to try my hand at catching some wild yeast for an all-homemade beer, and I wouldn't know where to start if it weren't for the knowledge on this thread -- rock on, yeast catchers!

Reno_eNVy

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Booyah! Got a chance to make sahti this year (never thought the juniper would bloom due to this incredibly dry winter.)

As intended, I saved some of the berries for harvesting yeast. It will be used to "sour" a gallon of the main batch.

Attached Images

    

__________________
Primary: air and sadness
Kegged: Southeast Asian Wit
Bottled: Light American Lager (5/13/12), Sahti (from keg), English Barleywine (brewed 9/26/09 -- bottled 5/5/10)

LET'S GO LA!
LA CAMPIONE!
PLAY FOR GLORY, THE GLORY LA!