Can Champagne yeast work as well as an ale yeast?

Looking for anyone with experience in using Champagne yeast.

- I see a lot of comments about using Champagne yeast for high gravity beers since they have high alcohol tolerance.

- I see a lot of people recommending using Champagne yeast to finish a stuck ferment.

- I see a lot of comments saying that Champagne yeast will dry out a beer. Some say it will take it down to 1.000, so you need to use it with caution.

I do not have any experience with the yeast, but from what I have read, Champagne yeast is a monster with simple sugars, but cannot convert many of the complex sugars we get in beers. With this limited information, I would expect Champagne yeast would not do as well as a decent ale yeast in a high gravity beer due to the high concentration of complex sugars.

My questions:

1) Does Champagne convert complex sugars?

2) Can Champagne yeast produce good results in a high gravity (high malt) beer. Say versus PacMan.

3) If an ale yeast went from 1.080 to 1.025, is there any reason to think Champagne yeast would help bring it down further than the ale yeast. Assumes the ale yeast worked fine, but was halted by complex sugars.

4) Pretty much covered by previous, but can Champagne yeast 'dry-out' a beer


A final question. I made a Barley Wine, 1.100 down to 1.010. I added some Champagne yeast at bottling because I thought my main yeast might have reached it's limit. Should I be concerned about bottle bombs.

Calder said:

A final question. I made a Barley Wine, 1.100 down to 1.010. I added some Champagne yeast at bottling because I thought my main yeast might have reached it's limit. Should I be concerned about bottle bombs.

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I'll just answer your last question - no. Bottle bombs (or over carbonation) are not the result of the yeast strain or amount of yeast, but rather giving the yeast too much to eat (sugar).

If you are talking about EC-1118 it cannot convert maltose, none of the wine yeasts can. In addition, the wine yeasts have a positive competitive factor which means they secrete a protein that will kill any other yeast strain. So once you add a wine yeast, your beer yeast is toast.

There is an enzyme called Convertase AG 300 that will break the maltose's down to simple sugars that the wine yeasts can take to dryness.

Pappers_ said:

No. Bottle bombs (or over carbonation) are not the result of the yeast strain or amount of yeast, but rather giving the yeast too much to eat (sugar).

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helibrewer said:

If you are talking about EC-1118 it cannot convert maltose, none of the wine yeasts can.

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This is what I believe, but I have seen lots of threads where people are giving advice saying that Champagne yeast will cure stuck fermentations, and lower FGs. I think it is just wrong, but have no experience. I want to know what is right and maybe get the information out to some other folks to stop this incorrect advice.

I see no use in adding a champagne yeast to further a fermentation when an ale yeast has reached it's limit.

I had a batch, a while ago, that I thought finished too high (I wanted a lower FG) so I added a packet of EC-1118 to it... Got nothing more out of the batch for the FG. It did carbonate within three weeks, after I primed and bottled it. So I know there was alive yeast in the brew. If that was the original yeast, or EC-1118, I'll probably never know.

IMO, you're better off selecting the correct yeast for a brew than counting on other yeast 'finishing' the fermentation. Or alter the recipe so that you can get it to ferment fully with the yeast you want to use. Very often I'll either change my yeast selection to match my desires for the batch, or tweak the recipe so that the yeast I want to use will do a proper job.

IF you think you have a stuck fermentation, or the yeast has fermented as much as it can, and you're still not at a reasonable FG, pick a higher tolerance beer yeast. Personally, I would select that yeast from the start though. IF you brew a batch that hits the limits of the yeast (for ABV) then you could prime with a wine yeast, if you really wanted to. I don't even worry about that now, since I'm kegging. I brew what I want, knowing the yeast will ferment the brew to what I want. I then carbonate with gas/CO2 to the desired volumes and enjoy it. I can also pull some bottles from the keg(s) as I wish.

You're better off trying to pitch Wyeast's Trappist High Grav or a similar super attenuative high ABV tolerant yeast, than a wine yeast.

Pappers_ said:

I'll just answer your last question - no. Bottle bombs (or over carbonation) are not the result of the yeast strain or amount of yeast, but rather giving the yeast too much to eat (sugar).

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I think a brett strain would depending on the fg even assuming all residual were complex starches

Calder said:

Looking for anyone with experience in using Champagne yeast.

- I see a lot of comments about using Champagne yeast for high gravity beers since they have high alcohol tolerance.

- I see a lot of people recommending using Champagne yeast to finish a stuck ferment.

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If this is what your looking to do, Wyeast 3711 I have heard works in the same regard but have no experience with it.
I have heard the same for Champaign yeast but I have not heard anyone recommend doing it. I would imagine that the contribution to the flavor of what you were shooting for would be significant if you had to use this for this purpose.
Just chiming in... Sorry no real world experience on it but I am curious as well about this.

Brewskii said:

If this is what your looking to do, Wyeast 3711 I have heard works in the same regard but have no experience with it.
I have heard the same for Champaign yeast but I have not heard anyone recommend doing it. I would imagine that the contribution to the flavor of what you were shooting for would be significant if you had to use this for this purpose.

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I am not looking to do anything. I just see a lot of people giving out, what I consider to be, misinformation. I personally do not have experience with using champagne yeast (except for once priming a Barley Wine due to reaching the abv of the primary yeast), so cannot say they are wrong. I thought I would ask the community to see if anyone knows what champagne yeast really does in beer.

Calder said:

I am not looking to do anything. I just see a lot of people giving out, what I consider to be, misinformation. I personally do not have experience with using champagne yeast (except for once priming a Barley Wine due to reaching the abv of the primary yeast), so cannot say they are wrong. I thought I would ask the community to see if anyone knows what champagne yeast really does in beer.

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Champagne yeast pitched at bottling time will carb your beer super-fast. I do it on every beer I brew with high-attenuating yeast (US-05, nottingham, WLP530) and have never had any bombs or over-carbed beer. My 11% ABV tripel carbed in two days!

Definitely would not use it as a primary strain. If you are having problems with attenuation make sure you do these things:

1. Mash a little lower
2. Use some sugar to replace some base malt
3. Add servomyces or some dry yeast to the boil for nutrients
4. Use a big starter, oxygenate to 9 PPM+
5. Ramp up your fermentation (example, start at 64 go to 70)

I am under the impression that champagne/wine yeasts cant convert maltose etc that ale yeast can too, but I do know that Allagash supposedly fermented Victor with a wine yeast: Tribute Series Beers - Allagash Victoria Ale

I'm pretty sure when I talked to them last year they claimed it was 100% wine yeast. I guess if you mashed low enough and long enough it'd probably work. I know another local brewery that fiddles with some wine yeast in their brews so I'll see if they've tested it.

A very good example is that It can be used is Leon by Omnipollo:

https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/omnipollo-leon-belgian-style-pale-ale/139809/

".....I set out to craft an ale that would act as companion throughout the evening. Leon is assertively hopped and fermented dry using champagne yeast. The yeast and the hops in combination with a simple malt bill provides the beer with a quality of being rich in taste yet refreshing.
Henok....."