Kegconnection Complete Starter Kit and More Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > British Yeasts, Fermentation Temps and Profiles, CYBI, Other Thoughts...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-01-2011, 10:49 AM   #11
KingBrianI
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,487
Liked 76 Times on 56 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf View Post
What mash thickness do you use?
I've found that mashing with 1 US qt water per lb grain gives great results, but using a mash thickness of 1.25 qt per lb or greater results in an anemic tasting beer.
I also find that I need to mash at ~150F for at least 90 minutes.
I've never tried the fermentation temperature controls that you mentioned (I ferment at 168F from start to finish), but I did find on my last trip to England that my bitters tasted much better than anything available commercially. However, in the town I visited, the only draught beer available was produced by Adnams (which is not my favorite).

-a.
I always mash at 1.25 qts/lb or thinner. I've heard that british beers are typically mashed thick but I've never been able to convince myself that it makes much of a difference. If you've experienced that it does make a difference, I'll have to give it a shot to see if it helps. I just can't wrap my head around how it could. I'm going to really need to do 2 batches of a simple bitter now, one where I change the fermentation profile and one where I change the mash thickness so I can single out the benefits of each.
__________________

I'm too lazy and have too many beers going to keep updating this!

KingBrianI is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-01-2011, 04:29 PM   #12
bierhaus15
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: , New York
Posts: 1,511
Liked 71 Times on 51 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf View Post
I've found that mashing with 1 US qt water per lb grain gives great results, but using a mash thickness of 1.25 qt per lb or greater results in an anemic tasting beer.

I also find that I need to mash at ~150F for at least 90 minutes.
I've tried mashing both thick and thin and honesty can't say I've noticed that great a difference. I wouldn't mash at 1.5qt/lb but I don't see how 1.25qt/lb is going to make much difference versus one at 1.0qt/lb. I think it would have more to do with your type of base malt and water profile than mash thickness. I agree with the longer mash, I wasn't getting the same attenuation and efficiency with a 60 min mash. Though I mash at 154F for most bitters and still get excellent attenuation.

I'm tempted to brew another batch of bitter this weekend and make it an official experiment. I already got two fermenting now, but what's one more.
__________________
bierhaus15 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-01-2011, 11:16 PM   #13
corncob
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 139
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

I have also been chasing the English ale flavor with little success. I also heard the CYBI with Fullers and noticed their fermentation temp schedule. I am in the process of building a fermentation cooler so I can try fermenting colder.

There are a few threads around here where people have said not to believe White Labs temp recommendations for English yeast if you want English beer. I am pretty sure I remember talk about fermenting in the very low 60's with the Sam Smith yeast.

I have never tasted a hydrometer sample before actually kegging, though. But I also have been fermenting around 67-68 for only about 10 days, then into the keg and on the gas.

I hope this thread gets filled with people's results in a few weeks.

One thing bothers me, though. If real English beer goes into a cask without being filtered, and if there are still unfermented sugars in there (not to mention priming sugar), and yeast which are asleep due to crashing--woudn't the yeast just wake up at some point and ferment the thing to thier limit? Is it the 55-degree cellar temp that allows priming without "cleaning up?" That makes ale a pretty parishable product, doesn't it?

__________________
corncob is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2011, 12:04 AM   #14
KingBrianI
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,487
Liked 76 Times on 56 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by corncob View Post
I am pretty sure I remember talk about fermenting in the very low 60's with the Sam Smith yeast.
That's one of the yeasts I was very disappointed with. I was expecting that Sam Smith's flavor and ended up with a very clean boring beer. Probably fermented too long and let it clean up too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corncob View Post
One thing bothers me, though. If real English beer goes into a cask without being filtered, and if there are still unfermented sugars in there (not to mention priming sugar), and yeast which are asleep due to crashing--woudn't the yeast just wake up at some point and ferment the thing to thier limit? Is it the 55-degree cellar temp that allows priming without "cleaning up?" That makes ale a pretty parishable product, doesn't it?
I've been wondering about that too. Casked ale and bottle conditioned beers seem like they would be susceptible to being "cleaned up". Obviously something prevents it since the cask ales and bottle conditioned british beers I've had have been full of that british character. Something else must be going on.
__________________

I'm too lazy and have too many beers going to keep updating this!

KingBrianI is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2011, 12:47 AM   #15
ajf
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ajf's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Long Island
Posts: 4,643
Liked 99 Times on 93 Posts
Likes Given: 39

Default

I started mashing at 1 qt per lb, and had been doing it for several years before I found that others were mashing thinner.
I tried mashing with 1.25, 1.33 and 1.5 qt / lb, and couldn't tell the difference between those three, but all three of them had much less malt presence than my normal mash of 1 qt / lb.
When I make draught English bitters, I mash at 1 qt / lb, because that is the only way that I can get the character you get in English pubs. If I'm making a bottled batch (which is much more highly carbonated), then the difference is still there, but not as pronounced. I wouldn't think of making an APA at that mash thickness. At the time I did this experiment, I was mashing at about 152F with a grain bill of 93% MO and 7% crystal 55. I used Wy1968 for the yeast, and fermented at about 165F to 170F (I didn't have fermentation temperature control then).
I was using water with about 70 ppm Ca, and about 150 ppm SO4, 10 ppm Na, and 13 ppm Cl

-a.

__________________

There are only 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.

ajf is offline
BurpMasterson Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2011, 01:16 AM   #16
Mad_Milo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Akron OH - Where the weak are killed and eaten.
Posts: 216
Liked 3 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Considering the subject of mashing has come up, has anyone compared a no-sparge mash to a regular mash? If so, did it make much difference one way or the other in the malt flavors?

I just brewed my first no-sparge for a special bitter this weekend, and it's bubbling away. I'm looking forward to seeing if there was much difference. It was nice to trim sparge time away from the brewday.

__________________
Mad_Milo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2011, 03:39 AM   #17
GuldTuborg
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
 
GuldTuborg's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: OH
Posts: 3,365
Liked 417 Times on 302 Posts
Likes Given: 232

Default

While I'm sure I don't have your answer, KingBrian, as an avid fan of English ales, I'll be following this thread closely. It's also good to see some love for 1318. I've been using it a good deal this past year, and really like it. Its ester profile is a bit subtle in most beers, but it seems to add a little extra something I can't put my finger on, that I really like.

__________________

Don't worry, be hoppy.

GuldTuborg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2011, 01:16 PM   #18
Dog House Brew
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Dog House Brew's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 930
Liked 9 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Interesting information! I have found that when I moved to a 3 week long primary that my malt forward beers took a step back. The only reason I moved to this was that I read here that everyone was doing long primary ferments. I brewed a 16.5 gallon batch of 1.066 oat stout and split it into 3 primary ferments with 3 different yeasts. I bottled them at 2, 3, and 4 week primary times. All had reached near FG in 4 days. Wish I had implemented fast ferment tests on these. Waiting on the last to carbonate, but I could tell a difference in the 2 and 3 week finished beers. For my malt forward beers I will be going to a shorter primary and totally agree with all of you on the loss of "wholesome" flavor. I had considerable loss of body between week 2 and 3 in mouth feel also. Yeasts were wk-2 1098, wk-3 1335, wk-4 1028. Favored yeast of the 3 was 1335. Wish I had bottled it first and 1098 last. Not much character is left in the 1028 batch after the long primary.

__________________

Are You Going to Drink all That?

Dog House Brew is offline
BurpMasterson Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2011, 03:16 PM   #19
bierhaus15
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: , New York
Posts: 1,511
Liked 71 Times on 51 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_Milo View Post
Considering the subject of mashing has come up, has anyone compared a no-sparge mash to a regular mash? If so, did it make much difference one way or the other in the malt flavors?
Good point. I've never done one for a bitter as the starting gravity is so low, but I would image it would help with a more robust malt profile; as it does in my barleywines and strong ales. However, I don't know if it would have anything to do with preventing the loss of yeast esters in the final beer.
__________________
bierhaus15 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2011, 03:28 PM   #20
Beerrific
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Beerrific's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5,600
Liked 45 Times on 37 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Also, what base malts are you using? I assume you are using a British Pale Ale malt from a Maris Otter or similar cultivar, but I have found recently that all British Pale Ale malts are not created equal. I have found significant differences between the MO from a variety of maltsters.

__________________
Beerrific is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Good yeasts for warm temps? jgod4520 Fermentation & Yeast 6 11-26-2010 09:23 PM
My weird fermentation. Any thoughts? Nokitchen Fermentation & Yeast 9 11-06-2010 11:06 PM
Weird Fermentation: WLP005 British Ale storunner13 Fermentation & Yeast 3 04-24-2010 06:42 PM
Fermentation temps Dr. Fedwell Fermentation & Yeast 2 10-28-2009 01:16 PM
Fermentation temps pnh2atl Fermentation & Yeast 4 08-20-2009 09:27 PM