Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Winners Re-Re-Re-Re-Drawn - 24 hours to Claim!

Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > Belgian Tripel "too clean" where to start improving?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-07-2010, 02:52 PM   #1
jpoder
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 226
Liked 13 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default Belgian Tripel "too clean" where to start improving?

my tripel, fermented with WPL570 doesn't have a lot of the "belgian" flavor profile. I can see a few possible places I could have done things differently, but could use some advice. first, I just pitched the liquid yeast...did not do a starter, and aerated by shaking the carboy (2 strikes?) after fermentation had been going for a day or so, I moved my carboy upstairs near a heating vent to increasing the temp tofruitiness and phenolic characteristics. So, where should I start to improve this beer the next time? starter, aeration w/ O2, ferment warmer earlier, better ferment temp control? I realize all of the above would be best...just wondering which elements have greatest impact.

__________________
jpoder is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2010, 03:01 PM   #2
scottlindner
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 173
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 16

Default

I suspect your biggest shortcoming with this particular brew is too low of a fermentation temperature. When you think yeastie Belgians.. think 80F for the fermentation temp if you can get it that high. Do you happen to know what you fermented at?

Also, did you use any spices? Those tend to help with that nice Belgian profile.

__________________
scottlindner is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2010, 06:04 PM   #3
McGarnigle
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NYS
Posts: 1,821
Liked 43 Times on 38 Posts
Likes Given: 35

Default

Under-pitching would actually make it less clean. You'd get more esters and phenols, possibly some bad ones as well. And if you moved the carboy to a warm spot after one day, that would aid yeast flavors. If I had to guess a problem with your beer from your process, I would have thought it would be the opposite of being overly clean.

__________________
McGarnigle is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2010, 06:40 PM   #4
Freezeblade
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 1,415
Liked 22 Times on 13 Posts

Default

I just opened a golden strong I did with 570 last night with great result. The key to getting this strain to attenuate all the way, and give you thoes great esters, is temp. sounds to me like you had too low of a fermentation temp. I take mine up to about 80F or so, higher with some strains.

__________________
Primary:Russian River Redemption clone, Kelly's Melomel, Graham's English Cider 22-23
Clearing:Apple Wine
Aging:Public House Dry Stout, Procrastination Porter, Mr. Brown Ale, Westvleteren 12 Clone, Mead, Duvel Clone, Graham's English Cider 6-21, Belgian Draak Strong Ale, Fig Melomel, Acerglyn, Restorative Tonic Metheglyn
Freezeblade is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2010, 06:46 PM   #5
kuphish
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
kuphish's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 200
Liked 4 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottlindner View Post
I suspect your biggest shortcoming with this particular brew is too low of a fermentation temperature. When you think yeastie Belgians.. think 80F for the fermentation temp if you can get it that high. Do you happen to know what you fermented at?

Also, did you use any spices? Those tend to help with that nice Belgian profile.
Fermentation temperatures that are too cool may be at the heart of the matter, but we don't know what temperatures the OP pitched and fermented at. Furthermore, I disagree with the 80F fermentation temperature recommendation, except for certain yeast strains (like WY3724-Belgian Saison) that are truly supposed to get that high. For most Belgian yeasts, the general consensus (on this board and by the brewers in "Brew Like a Monk") seems to be: start around 65F and let the temperature rise to the mid-high 70s. Much of the alcohol is produced at a lower temperature, which minimizes the production of fusels. But, letting the temperature ramp up after a day or two still allows you to get the ester profile desired.
__________________
kuphish is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2010, 07:08 PM   #6
Hermit
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Alternate Universe
Posts: 2,249
Liked 67 Times on 57 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

post ended up in the wrong thread.... opps...

__________________

Hermit is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2010, 07:44 PM   #7
scottlindner
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 173
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 16

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuphish View Post
Fermentation temperatures that are too cool may be at the heart of the matter, but we don't know what temperatures the OP pitched and fermented at. Furthermore, I disagree with the 80F fermentation temperature recommendation, except for certain yeast strains (like WY3724-Belgian Saison) that are truly supposed to get that high. For most Belgian yeasts, the general consensus (on this board and by the brewers in "Brew Like a Monk") seems to be: start around 65F and let the temperature rise to the mid-high 70s. Much of the alcohol is produced at a lower temperature, which minimizes the production of fusels. But, letting the temperature ramp up after a day or two still allows you to get the ester profile desired.
I understand the objection to the 80F. I find myself confused about this sometimes. There is a difference in what the maker of the yeast recommend, what I read about Belgian brewing history (which implies temps), and what I have seen other very successful brewers do with their Belgian brews. I know one guy that shoots for over 80F in some of his Belgians! It's probably best to stick to what the maker suggests and experiment from there.

Thanks for mentioning the fusels. I forgot to mention that when I mentioned 80F.
__________________
scottlindner is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2010, 07:59 PM   #8
kuphish
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
kuphish's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 200
Liked 4 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottlindner View Post
I understand the objection to the 80F. I find myself confused about this sometimes. There is a difference in what the maker of the yeast recommend, what I read about Belgian brewing history (which implies temps), and what I have seen other very successful brewers do with their Belgian brews. I know one guy that shoots for over 80F in some of his Belgians! It's probably best to stick to what the maker suggests and experiment from there.

Thanks for mentioning the fusels. I forgot to mention that when I mentioned 80F.
I follow you.

I have also read of some breweries letting their Belgians get into the low 80s. But, as far as I can tell, even those breweries pitch in the mid-high 60s, which is important.
__________________
kuphish is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2010, 08:01 PM   #9
scottlindner
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 173
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 16

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuphish View Post
I follow you.

I have also read of some breweries letting their Belgians get into the low 80s. But, as far as I can tell, even those breweries pitch in the mid-high 60s, which is important.
That's probably the detail I've been missing. I'll keep that in mind next time I brew a Belgian and see it how works out.

Scott
__________________
scottlindner is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-13-2010, 01:06 AM   #10
scottlindner
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 173
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 16

Default

I was talking to a brewing bud about this and he mentioned many Belgians should be fermented in the 80s if not 90s.

Read this wp on dupont.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brasserie_Dupont

Quote:
While most beer is fermented at temperatures not exceeding 68-72 degrees Fahrenheit, the tanks at Dupont have been observed to have reached the mid-90's
Scott
__________________

50% Art
50% Science
100% BEER

scottlindner is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Piraat "Belgium Tripel IPA" Clone Help...Arrgh! Revvy Recipes/Ingredients 72 02-10-2014 03:51 AM
What makes a "tripel" a tripel? andre the giant General Beer Discussion 17 11-05-2013 01:58 AM
simple quesion about "Easy Clean" zodiak3000 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 5 02-07-2013 07:42 PM
Thoughts on a "clean out the hops" pale ale cweston Recipes/Ingredients 2 03-02-2006 11:58 PM
Anyone Familiar with "Beer Clean Sanitizer"? Wolf Equipment/Sanitation 2 03-01-2006 01:45 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS