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Old 06-18-2013, 09:10 PM   #1
yono1986
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Default Barleywine Yeast Issues

I'm drawing up an English Barleywine recipe right now and the yeasts I'm looking at (Wyeast 1318, 1028) have alcohol tolerances a few percentage points below my recipe's calculated abv. Can this be gotten around by just pitching a metric ton of yeast (which I'm doing regardless of strain anyways), or do I have to reformulate to get within the recommended range for the yeast.

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Old 06-18-2013, 09:23 PM   #2
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Why not just use 1728 instead?? I used that in my wee heavy and it went to 12.5% ABV...

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Old 06-18-2013, 09:32 PM   #3
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There are things you can do to stretch your yeast. Overpitch (maybe 3x), oxygenate your wort, add some yeast nutrient.

You can also choose a different yeast. 1084 Irish and 1728 Scottish both have a slightly higher tolerance, and Irish should have an English character. They'll dramatically alter the character of the beer, but also 1762 Belgian Abbey 2 and 3787 Trappist HG.

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Old 06-19-2013, 12:36 PM   #4
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Why not just use 1728 instead?? I used that in my wee heavy and it went to 12.5% ABV...
Which would be great if I wanted to make a wee heavy. Alas this will be my first high gravity batch and until I can consistently nail down the basics like hitting my gravity, I'm brewing conservative as conservative can be. More importantly, I want a fruitier, more ester-forward yeast, which 1728 is not.
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Old 06-19-2013, 02:14 PM   #5
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You can also hold off on some additions. That is, if you're shooting for a 1.100 beer, get a 1.080 beer started first and then add concentrated wort (boiled down from brew day, extract based, whatever) partway through fermentation. Add enough to get your expected gravity and volume. This process usually gets you much more out of your yeast.

That said, 1028 is pretty beastly. I haven't used 1318 for a really big beer yet, but I've heard of others having good results. Remember, those numbers aren't set in stone, they're just when the yeast typically start having some trouble. Treat your yeast well, and they'll outperform whatever those numbers say every time.


Almost forgot: when 1728 gets a bit warm, or when it's in a big beer, I get some dark stone fruit flavors from it. Complements old ales, stouts, porters, and the like very nicely. It still may not be what you're looking for, but I thought I'd throw that out there. 1968 also performs well for many in barleywine sized ales.

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Old 06-19-2013, 02:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yono1986 View Post
Which would be great if I wanted to make a wee heavy. Alas this will be my first high gravity batch and until I can consistently nail down the basics like hitting my gravity, I'm brewing conservative as conservative can be. More importantly, I want a fruitier, more ester-forward yeast, which 1728 is not.
Had you actually posted that last line in your OP, I probably wouldn't have even posted. Withholding information only hurts your chances of getting the assistance you want.

What's the highest ABV beer you've brewed so far? Do you have the hardware (and knowledge) to make starters? With a proper sized starter, using pure O2 to oxygenate the wort, adding yeast nutrients, and a few other techniques you can typically get a few more ABV points from a yeast strain. Just remember, fermentation temperature is going to be extremely important here too.

I mentioned the wee heavy since that's what I used 1728 in. You're not locked into JUST using it in wee heavies (or other Scottish ales). IF you really want to get the highest ABV from the batch, you could always try WLP099. I would use it at the low end of the temperature range. So, keep it <65F for the duration. Going too warm with that strain can produce unwanted flavors. Of course, it's probably not a good idea for a novice.
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Old 06-19-2013, 02:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yono1986 View Post
Which would be great if I wanted to make a wee heavy. Alas this will be my first high gravity batch and until I can consistently nail down the basics like hitting my gravity, I'm brewing conservative as conservative can be. More importantly, I want a fruitier, more ester-forward yeast, which 1728 is not.
1728 is a really versatile yeast. High alcohol tolerance, and can exhibit a wide range of flavors. When fermented at the low it of it's (wide) temperature range, it can be clean to slightly smoky. When fermented on the upper end, it does in fact impart some fruity tones. I'm not sure if it's going to be estery enough for you, but it does work.
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golddiggie View Post
Had you actually posted that last line in your OP, I probably wouldn't have even posted. Withholding information only hurts your chances of getting the assistance you want.

What's the highest ABV beer you've brewed so far? Do you have the hardware (and knowledge) to make starters? With a proper sized starter, using pure O2 to oxygenate the wort, adding yeast nutrients, and a few other techniques you can typically get a few more ABV points from a yeast strain. Just remember, fermentation temperature is going to be extremely important here too.

I mentioned the wee heavy since that's what I used 1728 in. You're not locked into JUST using it in wee heavies (or other Scottish ales). IF you really want to get the highest ABV from the batch, you could always try WLP099. I would use it at the low end of the temperature range. So, keep it <65F for the duration. Going too warm with that strain can produce unwanted flavors. Of course, it's probably not a good idea for a novice.
Sorry for the withholding information/snark. The highest I've done is probably about 7, though I do have the equipment and knowledge for starters and usually use Beersmith/Jamil for size calculations. I use a chest freezer with a Johnson A419 for fermentation, though I don't have the knowledge/equipment to do anything with gas be in oxygenation or carbonation. Thanks for the tip on nutrients. Do you just add them late in the boil the same way you do whirlfloc or is there anything fancier/more sophisiticated. The reason I'm looking at 1318 is because I want the fruitiness. What's your experience with the profile of WLP099, from a brewer with 7 batches under his belt to a brewer with far more.
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yono1986 View Post
Sorry for the withholding information/snark. The highest I've done is probably about 7, though I do have the equipment and knowledge for starters and usually use Beersmith/Jamil for size calculations. I use a chest freezer with a Johnson A419 for fermentation, though I don't have the knowledge/equipment to do anything with gas be in oxygenation or carbonation. Thanks for the tip on nutrients. Do you just add them late in the boil the same way you do whirlfloc or is there anything fancier/more sophisiticated. The reason I'm looking at 1318 is because I want the fruitiness. What's your experience with the profile of WLP099, from a brewer with 7 batches under his belt to a brewer with far more.
Nutrients are added at the end of the boil, anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes, just to sanitize.

What's your OG going to be? I only ask because my higher OG beers had trouble attenuating before I started using pure O2. It's a must-have with big beers IMO.

I agree with Golddiggie on WLP099. I've used it a few times and have had issues with Diacetyl, but it sure can power through some big beers.
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:09 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by TheZymurgist View Post
Nutrients are added at the end of the boil, anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes, just to sanitize.

What's your OG going to be? I only ask because my higher OG beers had trouble attenuating before I started using pure O2. It's a must-have with big beers IMO.

I agree with Golddiggie on WLP099. I've used it a few times and have had issues with Diacetyl, but it sure can power through some big beers.
Right now I'm looking at 1.12-1.13. I've been fiddling around with the amount of base malt, and since I'm new to this and don't have the whole always hitting gravity thing down yet, I'm really not sure how well I can trust what my OG will be.
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