Anyone haerd of these new Yeasts from Mangrove Jack's (New Zealand)

Hummm...
I'm planning those six brews in the next two months. I got an interest in Mangrove Jack's -- the flavour profiles are varied and interesting, attenuation isn't over the top (something I look for, considering the list below), I'm bored of S-04 which I find VERY interesting in Stouts and Porters but whose lactic and mineral tang (my English Brown Ale is absolutely great if you feel like licking a rock) makes it just not the most interesting choice for what I wanna brew, and the temperature to which I can keep my beers without trouble (let's say 63-to-66) make US-05 frankly inappropriate (peachy Wee Heavy?... nope). Notty would probably ferment dirty underwears and Windsor just feels.... boring.

________________________________________

Here are my project brews :

- Special Bitter, +- 1.045 OG
- Porter with a twist (it will be smoky, not from the malts), +- 1.055 OG
- Light Scotch Ale/Wee Heavy, if that makes any sense, 1.075 OG
- Irish Red (or my interpretation of it : a Red Ale with 2-Row and Roasted Barley only as malts), 1.050 OG
- Galaxy-driven Hefe Weizen on the high-end of SRM/OG/IBU (basically, my take on the sublime Mein Nelson Sauvin), +- 1.055 OG
- Dark Weizenbock, 1.075 OG

I brew 1 gallon batches, which means I make two beers with one pack (and usually have a tiny amount of leftovers, which might be useful).

____________________________________

Well, first of all, and before choosing the right yeast... The whole 50 billion cells kinda scare the crap out of me. That basically means one pack for my two big beers (I also go for 0.75 in Brewers Friend). That also means that I could be manageable to pitch +- 40% of the pack in the Bitter and the reminder in the Porter. Not ideal, but certainly manageable. Still, that's a problem.
____________________________________

Second, I must choose the yeast and figure out ideal pairings. Let's assume the Yeast Count is similar to Fermentis/Danstar for the purposes of this exercise.

The choice is easy with the Weizens. M20.

The Bitter calls for Burton Union.
The Porter would call for either Burton Union or British Ale.

I mean, it would certainly call for British Ale more than Burton Union (pear in kiwis in a Porter?), but I gather that, if fermented in my usual range, those esters will fade away, especially in a beer containing 20% of Brown Malt/Chocolate Malt. It's something the spec sheet alludes to.

The problem is with the Wee Heavy/SSA and the Irish Red.

Going purely by profiles, Newcastle Dark Ale just feels absolutely perfect with those dark fruits esters. You don't want esters in a SSA, but if you HAVE to get them, go for dark fruits. And I could certainly live with a 65% attenuation (technically, lower-end of specs). It will be sweet and have plenty of body, which is the whole point. And an Irish Red finishing in the 1.016 range at 5% isn't bad either if the profile of the yeast fits the description.

But then, you have this message on the spec sheets :

Higher alcohol beers will tend to be slightly too sweet and heavy due to the moderate attenuative capabilities of the strain although a lower mash temperature may help the fermentability and lower the final gravity.

Usually, spec sheets tend to boost their products, as opposed to saying something like "don't do that". The thing is, the specs sheet also mentions this :

Traditional Scotch Ale : British Ale Yeast
Scottish Style Heavy Ale : Newcastle Dark Ale Yeast

I don't know what that means, but I suspect my Strong Scotch Ale fits in the first category rather than in the second.

The other problem I see is the many comments on how Newcastle Dark Ale attenuates terribly. On a 1.075 beer, including 14% of Caramunich, Honey Malt (which is a decent fermentable from what I gather... but sweet) and Chocolate Malt, this seems to be a recipe for disaster.

So 2nd option for yeast pairing would be

British Ale : Strong Scotch Ale (not even strong actually...) and Porter.
Burton Union : Irish and Bitter

But then again, this mention, for strong beers :

Ester formation will be slightly elevated in higher alcohol beers, but the character of esters will be pleasant with ripe apple and pear dominating, along with faint banana. Beer will be dry, but a perception of malt sweetness will survive in the aftertaste along with malt character and
complexity. Alcohol should be warming, not hot

I don't know which is worse : 55% attenuation or a Strong Scotch Ale-meets-Weizen brew. Either way, from what I gathered, the British Ale yeast can ferment really clean, which works well in a SSA. But then again -- thin mouthfeel?

______________________________________

The 3rd option is yeast blending, especially for the SSA, which I'm strongly considering at this point (really, just .5 grams of US-5 or S-4 should do it).

______________________________________

I swear I'll give some feedback if ever I chose the Mangrove Jack route. Profiles are very interesting, but some experiences are a bit wacky.

Also, I presume that, with those yeasts, it's a very good idea to completely avoid CaraPils...

aidan said:

I brewed my pilsner with M84 on Sunday night. I used only 1 packet of M84 and had some fermentation activity by the next day. I achieved this by starting it off a bit warmer. I rehydrated in water at 24 C, pitched at 17 C and let it sit for first 8 hours at 17 C. By then there was already some airlock activity starting. Then I slowly dropped from 17 C down to fermentation temp of 12 C over the course of the next day. By afternoon airlock activity was going nice and solid. So my conclusion is that this yeast is slow multiplying at the colder temps leading to a long lag time if pitched at typical lager fermentation temps. It remains to be seen if there will be any negative reprecussions of pitching it a bit warmer and holding at 17 C overnight but I reckon it would be much worse if an infection took hold during a multi-day lag time.

Click to expand...

Brewed my first Pilsner on Sunday afternoon, Nov. 30th.
3gal batch
5lbs Pilsner malt
8oz Munich, DarK 15L
0.4oz Super Alpha 90min
0.2oz Super Alpha 30min
0.4oz Nelson Sauvin 0mins
0.2oz Motueka 0mins

Mashed 148F for 60mins. Batch sparge. Boiled 90mins.
OG 1.046

So on the recommendation of the quoted post, I pitched the M84 a little high at 68F. I oxygenated very well and sprinkled the dry yeast on top of the foamy wort. I placed the bucket into the ferm chamber set at 12C or 53.6F.
After re-reading the above post, I bumped the temp up to 14C (57.2F). Then yesterday, when I got home from work, 50 hours after pitching with no bubbling airlock, I raised it again to 15C (59F).
This morning, still no activity in the airlock. I know airlock activity is not an indicator of active fermentation, but in the early stages, I should see something.
Some have said that the lag time can be as long as 80 hours. I'm concerned that I may have shocked the yeast dropping them from 68F to 53.6F. I knew better than to drop the temp that far, but the pack said the optimum temp is 50-55F. I figured I put it about mid range and see what happens.
Should I pitch another pack of yeast or let it ride?

I don't think you would have shocked the yeast by chilling from 20C down to 12C as it probably would have taken a few hours for the temp to drop. But the dropping temp would have slowed the yeast multiplication down. I'd expect that the yeast will get back up to speed eventually so it's a bit of a toss up as to letting it ride or re-pitching. If you already have another packet of the same yeast it would be no harm to rehydrate it and re-pitch. Rehydration temp for this yeast is 20-25C and your wort is sitting at 15C so if you do repitch make sure to not to dump 25C yeast slurry straight in and shock the re-pitched yeast - cool it slowly to close to the wort temp before pitching.

By the way mine got down to 1.010 and tasted pretty clean from the SG sample. I kept it at 11.5C for 1 week and then slowly raised the temp up to 17.5C for d-rest/finish of fermentation. I have it cold crashing (express lagering) at the moment.

aidan said:

I don't think you would have shocked the yeast by chilling from 20C down to 12C as it probably would have taken a few hours for the temp to drop. But the dropping temp would have slowed the yeast multiplication down. I'd expect that the yeast will get back up to speed eventually so it's a bit of a toss up as to letting it ride or re-pitching. If you already have another packet of the same yeast it would be no harm to rehydrate it and re-pitch. Rehydration temp for this yeast is 20-25C and your wort is sitting at 15C so if you do repitch make sure to not to dump 25C yeast slurry straight in and shock the re-pitched yeast - cool it slowly to close to the wort temp before pitching.

By the way mine got down to 1.010 and tasted pretty clean from the SG sample. I kept it at 11.5C for 1 week and then slowly raised the temp up to 17.5C for d-rest/finish of fermentation. I have it cold crashing (express lagering) at the moment.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I think it may be starting to take off. I use the S shaped airlock. At 5pm the outlet side liquid was slightly higher than the fermentor side. I may have some co2 production!
Hopefully, in the morning, I'll have bubbles. If so, I'll knock the temp down to 13C, then down to 11C when I get home from work.
I'm leaving in 2 days for vacation. I should be back just in time for the d-rest, assuming it will start fermenting. Even if it doesn't start, I'll turn down the temp before leaving.

UPDATE: 12/4/14 - Activity in the airlock this morning at 7:30am. Looks like things are getting started.

bstacy1974 said:

I know airlock activity is not an indicator of active fermentation, but in the early stages, I should see something.
Some have said that the lag time can be as long as 80 hours.

Click to expand...

I assume you're using a bucket. You can get some idea of kraeusen by darkening the room and shining a flashlight down on the bucket lid. The liquid level and kraeusen will show on the side.

Lol at that essay up there...