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Old 03-21-2013, 12:59 PM   #1
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Default Advice wanted from experienced Belgian brewers

I am in the process of brewing a Belgian Golden Strong. (Duval and Piraat are two of my favorites). The recipe is basically approx 10 pounds pilsner and 3 pounds table sugar with saatz. (Jamil's BCS recipe). LBS did not have the yeast recommended by Jamil so I substituted Wyeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity. 2L starter. Pitched at 64. Ramping up to 76 during the next week. My question is for those with experience from that yeast what kind of Esther and phenol flavors does that yeast produce? In other words if everything goes reasonably well will my beer taste like a golden strong or did my choice of yeast in this 1.080 wort make it likely that I brewed a triple?

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Old 03-21-2013, 03:24 PM   #2
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Swapping yeasts will have some affect, but the WY3787 can be very clean fermented cool (64F-68F). Some of that experience was leaving the beer on the yeast a long time after a very controlled fermentation. I've changed techniques to align with this advice (http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/...hing_rates.pdf) about confirming final gravity in about a week and getting the beer off the yeast lately. I've got (3) Belgians going this way (Dubbel, Tripel & Quad).

Experience with the BCS Tripel is that it was very short on bitterness and hop flavor that lacked complextiy. The style guideline is pretty similar so as long as it's dry & low bitterness, then it's a Golden Strong. I think the BCS Tripel could also be a Golden Strong because at 148F mash, it finished around 1.008.

Here's another recipe for reference that lists 29 IBU (Tinseth), equals about 43 IBU (Rager)
http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/...ation_005x.pdf

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Old 03-21-2013, 03:32 PM   #3
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3787 can take a very long time to hit it's FG unless you give it the temperature schedule it likes. I agree with the Candi Syrup link that states it should hit the FG in only 5 days, BUT it can take a LOT longer than that.

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Old 03-21-2013, 03:41 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bknifefight View Post
3787 can take a very long time to hit it's FG unless you give it the temperature schedule it likes. I agree with the Candi Syrup link that states it should hit the FG in only 5 days, BUT it can take a LOT longer than that.
I was skeptical about Candi Syrup's recommendations and decided to go all-out trying their techiques & recipes. Here are 3 experiences with WY3787 showing final gravity in a fairly short time. Aeration & pitching temperautre are similar for all batches, the Quad definitely would have taken longer at a constant low temperature but I'm hoping for a different ester profile from that one.

graph-1.jpg
graph-2.jpg
graph-3.jpg
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:45 PM   #5
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Mmmm, Duvel. Its on my to do list to brew later this spring. Have yet to brew a BGS ale. I would describe Duvel as a marriage of phenolic peppery yeast flavor with a little citrus. Then some spicy hop flavor from Saaz.

What I have brewed is 4 Belgians with WY3787 (Patersbier, Dubbel, and 2 Tripels). I also pitch at 64. I hold in mid 60's for 48 hours and then let it ramp to 68F or so until it slows down. And finish up at 70 or 71 for a few days. Note: these are beer temps which are higher than ambient temps during bulk fermentation. Ambient temps of upper 60's/low 70's would give too high of beer temps IMO.

On that temp schedule I get plenty of pepper phenols. The issue is it takes some time in the bottle to show up. I usually notice a pleasant citrus ester flavor when the beer is relatively young (3-6 months from brew). 6-12 months the peppery phenolics really shine through. And then from 18 months on it all melds together and fades somewhat. Its like getting 3 beers in one batch, depending on when you drink it.

Last thing. Watch that airlock like a hawk. Even Fermcap-S cannot stop the foam on this monster top cropping yeast. I've blown the bucket lid twice. Be ready with a blowoff tube.

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Old 03-21-2013, 03:49 PM   #6
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Dsmith,

Are those charts of your brews? They are fantastic. My Westmalle temp schedule lines up almost identical to yours. Looks like we live in the same area too, we may have to compare notes sometime.

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Old 03-21-2013, 04:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Last thing. Watch that airlock like a hawk. Even Fermcap-S cannot stop the foam on this monster top cropping yeast. I've blown the bucket lid twice. Be ready with a blowoff tube.
Completely agree. I use a 1" blowoff tube and every batch with WY3787 has blowoff at about 66F for me. I'm sure it all depends on your fermenter size too, but look out for a huge krausen.
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:32 PM   #8
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The Westmalle strain (3787) is a great versatile Belgian yeast, but it won't give those signature pear notes that the correct yeast for a BGS will. Not sure what the Wyeast version is, but its WLP570 from White Labs

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Old 03-21-2013, 04:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g-star View Post
The Westmalle strain (3787) is a great versatile Belgian yeast, but it won't give those signature pear notes that the correct yeast for a BGS will. Not sure what the Wyeast version is, but its WLP570 from White Labs
1388 for Wyeast, which is the Duvel strain.
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:27 PM   #10
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Those are some sweet temperature charts. Is there software/hardware available for recording temperatures like that?

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