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Old 03-24-2010, 12:58 PM   #21
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I don't think all is lost because I didn't let the starter fully ferment out. I mean, I am in a better position now than just dumping the yeast in from the smack pack. Since they were given 12 hours to reproduce, there were more cells than there were originally. It may not be the best it could be, but better. Oh yeah, and I learned to time it better!

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Old 03-24-2010, 01:11 PM   #22
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I don't think all is lost because I didn't let the starter fully ferment out. I mean, I am in a better position now than just dumping the yeast in from the smack pack. Since they were given 12 hours to reproduce, there were more cells than there were originally. It may not be the best it could be, but better. Oh yeah, and I learned to time it better!
Well, I guess you are right, some growth is better than none at all.

I'm sure your brew will be great. Cheers!
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Old 03-24-2010, 01:17 PM   #23
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Since a giant 5g container of wort is sitting there, why NOT pitch now. What possible benefit is there from letting the yeast sit in the smallish container of wort? Any additional yeast growth in the starter could just as well be happening in the beer.

It is imperative to pitch yeast and get the wort up above 2% alcohol. This will poison the bacteria that are growing rapidly as we speak.

To properly create and use a starter, it should be fermented to completion before the wort is cooled. It should then also be rested overnight at cold temps, then decanted. These steps were not done and as you pointed out the reason for making the starter was lost.
I don’t agree with the procedure of decanting the starter. There is something special that happens when you pitch your starter yeast at high krausen (12-18 hours) and introduce healthy ACTIVE yeast to cool oxygenated wort.
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Old 03-24-2010, 01:17 PM   #24
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Yeah I'm not too worried about it, just waiting for signs of fermentation now. Thanks for all the advice though!

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Old 03-24-2010, 01:39 PM   #25
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I don’t agree with the procedure of decanting the starter. There is something special that happens when you pitch your starter yeast at high krausen (12-18 hours) and introduce healthy ACTIVE yeast to cool oxygenated wort.
You might be right. However, I have had some smelly oxygenated starter wort that I would not want to add to a small beer, i.e., a helles.

Also, since I grow yeast from small frozen tubes, I end up with almost 8L of starter wort. It takes 10 days to grow this. I have to decant twice to make this happen. Not much choice but to decant.
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Old 03-24-2010, 01:46 PM   #26
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There are two risks involved.

1.) The risk of infection.

2.) The risk of underpitching.

As I said, with reasonable sanitation the wort is sanitary and will have a 'shelf' life similar to pasteurized milk. So in my opinion, # 2 is much more likely than # 1.

With my lagers, I cannot achieve fermentation temps (50 F) with my immersion chiller. It takes at about 24 hours to stabilize the wort temp before I can pitch. So, my experience says the wort can wait.

I will agree that higher temps than that will accelerate infection growth, I just doubt that it would be enough in 24 hours to worry about. It takes a week for 4 billion cells to ferment out, at which time you would have maybe a trillion yeast cells? An infection starting from less than 10 cells wouldn't have a chance even if it had a 24 hour head start. Just my opinion.

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Old 03-24-2010, 02:04 PM   #27
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I don’t agree with the procedure of decanting the starter. There is something special that happens when you pitch your starter yeast at high krausen (12-18 hours) and introduce healthy ACTIVE yeast to cool oxygenated wort.
If you refrigerate after 16 hours, after decanting and letting the starter come back up to room temperature over the course of several hours, the yeast is still going to be active. I'd rather pitch as much yeast and as little starter wort possible so my recipe is the only contributing factor to the flavor of my beer. I've had batches bubbling violently 3 hours after pitching using this method. I can't think of anything more special than that.
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Old 03-24-2010, 06:08 PM   #28
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If you refrigerate after 16 hours, after decanting and letting the starter come back up to room temperature over the course of several hours, the yeast is still going to be active. I'd rather pitch as much yeast and as little starter wort possible so my recipe is the only contributing factor to the flavor of my beer. I've had batches bubbling violently 3 hours after pitching using this method. I can't think of anything more special than that.
"I've had batches bubbling violently 3 hours after pitching using this method. I can't think of anything more special than that."

Two hours would be more special
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Old 03-24-2010, 06:17 PM   #29
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You might be right. However, I have had some smelly oxygenated starter wort that I would not want to add to a small beer, i.e., a helles.

Also, since I grow yeast from small frozen tubes, I end up with almost 8L of starter wort. It takes 10 days to grow this. I have to decant twice to make this happen. Not much choice but to decant.
"oxygenated starter wort"
Fermentation will scrub this out and if its smelly I would not put it in my beer...

"I end up with almost 8L of starter wort"
OMG...that is almost half my batch of beer. Do you brew twice, once for the starters and once for your beer...lol
I also grow mine up from 10ml tubes. I have sterile wort in tubes that I active it with the pitch that into a 250ml flask then jump it up to a 2000ml flask. I pitch that into 5 gallons of beer after 12 hours in the 2000ml flask. within two hours of pitching I have activity. In 5 days I have full attenuation.
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:33 PM   #30
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"oxygenated starter wort"
Fermentation will scrub this out and if its smelly I would not put it in my beer...

"I end up with almost 8L of starter wort"
OMG...that is almost half my batch of beer. Do you brew twice, once for the starters and once for your beer...lol
I also grow mine up from 10ml tubes. I have sterile wort in tubes that I active it with the pitch that into a 250ml flask then jump it up to a 2000ml flask. I pitch that into 5 gallons of beer after 12 hours in the 2000ml flask. within two hours of pitching I have activity. In 5 days I have full attenuation.
4L for a 5g batch, 8L for 10g.

250ml -> 1L -> 4L, decant, repeat. Not a really big deal. I am getting tired of it, though, and I'm brewing more beer with dry yeast these days.
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