New Giveaway - Wort Monster Conical Fermenter!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > Advice needed about starter




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-24-2010, 01:42 AM   #11
Pappers_
Moderator
HBT_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Pappers_'s Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,223
Liked 808 Times on 586 Posts
Likes Given: 1820

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by passedpawn View Post
for god's sake, pitch it now.

Yes, the starter should have been done earlier, but it wasn't. Once the beer is in the carboy, you need to put the yeast in there. Period.
+ 100000000



Last edited by Pappers_; 03-24-2010 at 01:45 AM.
Pappers_ is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2010, 01:42 AM   #12
DFoster
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 73
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellshooter View Post
I'm in the wait till morning camp. You will be introducing billions of cells, more than enough to overwhelm any single cell that might have bred overnite.
That's how I usually look at it and haven't had an issue thus far..I haven't yet let wort sit overnight.


__________________
DFoster is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2010, 01:58 AM   #13
Wellshooter
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Angelo, Texas
Posts: 380
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Look at wort as if it were pasturized milk. It won't go sour over night. With reasonable sanitation you should be able to keep it for several days before pitching. Not that you would want to, but it will be fine until the starter is finished.

The fear of infection is much greater than the risk.

__________________

"Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one." - Voltaire

Wellshooter is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2010, 02:04 AM   #14
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 58,702
Liked 3869 Times on 2826 Posts
Likes Given: 647

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellshooter View Post
Look at wort as if it were pasturized milk. It won't go sour over night. With reasonable sanitation you should be able to keep it for several days before pitching. Not that you would want to, but it will be fine until the starter is finished.

The fear of infection is much greater than the risk.
Ok, but what would be the benefit to NOT pitching it now?

I guess I don't quite understand. The beer is made. It's just sitting there. There is a yeast culture started, and probably not at the peak of reproduction but certainly it has a higher count than it did this morning. The advantages of pitching now have been enumerated.

But what would the advantage be of waiting? A higher cell count? Well, sure. But it'll have a higher cell count by morning if pitched in the wort tonight, too. I just don't see why it's even a question. What possible benefit could a yeast-less wort sitting over night give to this brew?
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2010, 02:11 AM   #15
BigB
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Shelby Twp, MI
Posts: 1,760
Liked 41 Times on 36 Posts
Likes Given: 41

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YooperBrew View Post
Ok, but what would be the benefit to NOT pitching it now?

I guess I don't quite understand. The beer is made. It's just sitting there. There is a yeast culture started, and probably not at the peak of reproduction but certainly it has a higher count than it did this morning. The advantages of pitching now have been enumerated.

But what would the advantage be of waiting? A higher cell count? Well, sure. But it'll have a higher cell count by morning if pitched in the wort tonight, too. I just don't see why it's even a question. What possible benefit could a yeast-less wort sitting over night give to this brew?
+1 to this. If the starter was made this morning, the yeast have probably done the majority of reproduction. The benefit of waiting a few extra hours is minimal... ESPECIALLY if it is a beer that has an OG of under 1.060.
__________________
I love the sound of an airlock bubbling in the morning. It sounds like.....VICTORY.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TxBrew
It's now degenerating into nu uh and uh huhs and it no longer serves a point.
BigB is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2010, 03:44 AM   #16
Wellshooter
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Angelo, Texas
Posts: 380
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigB View Post
+1 to this. If the starter was made this morning, the yeast have probably done the majority of reproduction. The benefit of waiting a few extra hours is minimal... ESPECIALLY if it is a beer that has an OG of under 1.060.
Likewise why not just pitch a single vial and forget the whole starter thing.

The reason for making the starter is lost if it is not continued to completion. I don't see a good reason to not let it finish. It'll probably be fine either way, but if I made the starter I would let got to peak before pitching and not worry about it.
__________________

"Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one." - Voltaire

Wellshooter is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2010, 12:12 PM   #17
snail
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 323
Liked 12 Times on 5 Posts

Default

I was under the impression that whenever you are using liquid yeast you should make a starter. The original gravity for the brew was 1.064. I did end up pitching it last night. The starter was on the stir plate for about 12 hours when I pitched it. If the starter wasn't finished, wouldn't I have underpitched?

__________________
snail is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2010, 12:21 PM   #18
mightynintendo
Pastafarian
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mightynintendo's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Columbia, Missouri
Posts: 2,579
Liked 93 Times on 79 Posts
Likes Given: 55

Default

12 hours is about 4 hours shy of the minimum recommended time for the yeast to fully populate a starter, but I wouldn't sweat it. You may have under pitched by a little bit but it really shouldn't make that big a difference. Problems arise when you grossly under pitch, like don't make a starter and only use one Wyeast smack pack on a 1.070 OG wort. That's a good way to get incomplete fermentation as the yeast run the risk of becoming so worn out they can't finish the job. I think in your case 12 hours was fine and the yeast will make the transition without much difficulty. Rest easy my friend!

__________________

'Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne.'

—Kurt Vonnegut, Breakfast of Champions

mightynintendo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2010, 12:47 PM   #19
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 58,702
Liked 3869 Times on 2826 Posts
Likes Given: 647

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellshooter View Post
Likewise why not just pitch a single vial and forget the whole starter thing.

The reason for making the starter is lost if it is not continued to completion. I don't see a good reason to not let it finish. It'll probably be fine either way, but if I made the starter I would let got to peak before pitching and not worry about it.
You don't have to complete the starter- your goal is simply to reproduce the yeast cells. A single vial simply doesn't have enough cells, especially for a beer over 1.060.

Without a hemocytometer, you're still guessing at the cell count anyway. You can assume, though, that there was reproduction.

In theory, even a 2 hour starter would be beneficial over none at all. Ideally, the starter would be pitched at high krausen, but when is that? Four hours? Twelve? Twenty? Quite possibly, any of those times. One of the reasons I make my starter in advance by several days is because I just can't seem to get the timing right! Sometimes a starter will ferment out completely in less than 24 hours. Sometimes it won't. I sometimes can't figure out when high krausen is- even in my own starters at my house! I certainly can't guess when someone else's starter is finished.

Generally, a 2L starter will reach maximum cell density within 12 hours-18 hours. So, pitching at 10 hours would not be detrimental in my opinion. It would be more beneficial, in my opinion, to pitch a starter that may be a hair under maximum cell density than to let wort sit out overnight.

I guess this discussion goes to show you why so many of us do the things we do. Neither is right nor wrong. Just different opinions on how to accomplish the same goal.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2010, 12:50 PM   #20
passedpawn
Moderator
HBT_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
passedpawn's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: ☼ Clearwater, FL ☼
Posts: 17,529
Liked 2659 Times on 1714 Posts
Likes Given: 2166

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellshooter View Post
The reason for making the starter is lost if it is not continued to completion. I don't see a good reason to not let it finish. It'll probably be fine either way, but if I made the starter I would let got to peak before pitching and not worry about it.
Since a giant 5g container of wort is sitting there, why NOT pitch now. What possible benefit is there from letting the yeast sit in the smallish container of wort? Any additional yeast growth in the starter could just as well be happening in the beer.

It is imperative to pitch yeast and get the wort up above 2% alcohol. This will poison the bacteria that are growing rapidly as we speak.

To properly create and use a starter, it should be fermented to completion before the wort is cooled. It should then also be rested overnight at cold temps, then decanted. These steps were not done and as you pointed out the reason for making the starter was lost.


__________________
Eyes closed, we imagined our pain as a ball of white healing light floating around our feet and rising to our knees, our waist, our chest. Our chakras opening. The heart chakra. The head chakra. Chloe talked us into caves where we meet our power animal. Mine was a penguin.
passedpawn is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First lager, yeast starter advice needed maho General Techniques 1 06-11-2009 04:49 PM
1st starter - advice needed paradoc Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 9 05-31-2009 03:56 PM
advice needed please lowlife Hops Growing 10 05-04-2009 01:17 AM
Stopping a starter? advice needed quickly! Zymurgrafi Recipes/Ingredients 9 12-30-2007 12:29 PM
Advice Needed swampdog General Techniques 9 06-24-2007 03:09 AM