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Old 05-05-2013, 11:09 AM   #861
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Oh; ok. Yeah, Aroma is a good thing but can be overdone. FWH is a black box for me - I never know what I'm gonna get. I suppose I just haven't used it enough. I used it in a dopple bock once and, as I recall, it too was not bitter enough.
I think I accounted for it as a 40 min addition in BeerSmith to try and get a calculated IBU. I think that is what the consensus was at the time.

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Old 05-22-2013, 01:56 AM   #862
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Just got back scoresheets for my version of White House Honey Ale.

BJCP National judge gave 38 pts in specialty category. He had very nice things to say. I entered as a ESB with honey. His major complaint was that the beer was not bitter enough for an ESB. That is true especially since I moved the 45min EKG addition to FWH. He also said the beer needs more hop aroma for an ESB. I thought it was quite pungent with Fuggles aroma but maybe I am confused. I am not the best at describing flavors and aromas. The judge suggested entering as a specialty based on ordinary bitter or increasing hop aroma and bitterness. On the bottom under intangibles he checked wonderful.

The other judge (not BJCP) had very similar comments but gave a lower score.

Bottom line, I am pleased.

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Old 05-22-2013, 03:21 AM   #863
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Wow. Great score. Congrats!

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Old 05-22-2013, 03:35 AM   #864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alestateyall View Post
Just got back scoresheets for my version of White House Honey Ale.

BJCP National judge gave 38 pts in specialty category. He had very nice things to say. I entered as a ESB with honey. His major complaint was that the beer was not bitter enough for an ESB. That is true especially since I moved the 45min EKG addition to FWH. He also said the beer needs more hop aroma for an ESB. I thought it was quite pungent with Fuggles aroma but maybe I am confused. I am not the best at describing flavors and aromas. The judge suggested entering as a specialty based on ordinary bitter or increasing hop aroma and bitterness. On the bottom under intangibles he checked wonderful.

The other judge (not BJCP) had very similar comments but gave a lower score.

Bottom line, I am pleased.
Congrats, sounds great. I entered this beer as a specialty beer, because the honey aroma/flavor was pronounced, and took a silver medal in that cateogory in the 2013 Chicago Cup.
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:15 AM   #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappers_

Congrats, sounds great. I entered this beer as a specialty beer, because the honey aroma/flavor was pronounced, and took a silver medal in that cateogory in the 2013 Chicago Cup.
Pappers, did you list a base style on your entry form? If so, what was it? Thanks.
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Old 04-18-2014, 04:56 PM   #866
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I brewed this beer as my 3rd or 4th batch last year and enjoyed it. I upgraded my equipment lately and decided to plan to brew an all-grain version of it. I know, others have posted their own all-grain version but I watched the original White House video and based on that and my own taste, designed my own version.

It's a 6 Gallon Batch, not a 5 Gallon Batch.
If you look at the video, when they rack it to secondary they top it with water over the 6 gallon mark. Then when they transfer it to the bucket, you can clearly see that they have just over 5 gallon of finished beer in the bucket. So it's not a 7%-plus ABV but rather something close to 5.8%-6.0%. They don't talk about it in the instructions but the instructions they give are sketchy. I'll brew this from the start as a 6 Gallon Batch, then top it with water at secondary just like they do in the video.

No more Biscuit Malt
Let's face it, it's an ESB-style beer brewed with Light Extracts. The Biscuit Malt is just there to mimic the biscuity flavour of a Maris Otter. If you use Maris Otter or any other floor-malted english grain, you don't need Biscuit Malt.

More Crystal, more complexity
I used a 80 L Crystal when I brewed this with extract. I wanted to get a similar "speciality grains" grain bill while getting the same color. I swapped the 12 oz 80 L Crystal for 12 oz 40 L Crystal. This will bring back the caramelly flavor you find in the extracts. I also replaced the now useless 8 oz Biscuit Malt by a 9 oz 120 L Crystal addition. Not only It bring back the same colour I had with the extract version, but it will bring some dry fruit notes and a dryer mouthfeel.

Bitterness
Here is where things will change the most. First, I think we all agree that this beer is somewhat not bitter enough by any standards. We're miles from any American Craft Ale bitterness and even quite far from the low-spectrum of the bitterness for an English ESB, which this beer is inspired from. Second, I hate to have to deal with half-ounces additions. I prefer adjusting the hopping schedule than being left with half or third-ounces. Plus my home-brew shop only sell flat-ounces, so I worked with that. Third, the hop schedule and the hop quantities they gave via e-mail and in the instructions don't match. I want it to be closer to a bitter hoppiness and flavor, without being harsh or getting over the honey/caramelly flavor. So I keep the same hops, adjust slightly the quantities and schedule and dry-hop a bit with a half-ounce.

Water and Yeast
I use de-mineralized water to brew. So I will add 1/2 tsp of Chalk to the 2 tsp of Gypsum. I will use the same Yeast, although
I'd be tempted to use Wyeast 1968 (Fuller's ESB) Yeast.

I hit pretty much all the same numbers in Beersmith for this recipe compared to when I enter the Extract version (ABV, Color) except for the adjusted bitterness.

Here's the recipe:

WATER
2.00 tbsp Gypsum
0.50 tbsp Chalk

MASH
10 lbs Maris Otter
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
9.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L

HOPS
1.50 oz EKG 60 min.
0.50 oz Fuggles 30 min.
1.50 oz Fuggles 0 min.
0.50 oz EKG Dry Hop 7 days

ADDITIONS
1.00 tsp Irish Moss 10 min.
1 lb Honey 0 min.

YEAST
1.0 pkg Windsor Yeast

Mash at 152. Primary for 5 days. Secondary for 14 days. Dry Hop the last 7 days. Prime with 0.75 cup of sugar


What do you think? Should this make a good brew?

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Last edited by slymaster; 04-18-2014 at 05:03 PM. Reason: slight mistake in the water additions
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Old 04-26-2014, 12:59 PM   #867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slymaster View Post
I brewed this beer as my 3rd or 4th batch last year and enjoyed it. I upgraded my equipment lately and decided to plan to brew an all-grain version of it. I know, others have posted their own all-grain version but I watched the original White House video and based on that and my own taste, designed my own version.

It's a 6 Gallon Batch, not a 5 Gallon Batch.
If you look at the video, when they rack it to secondary they top it with water over the 6 gallon mark. Then when they transfer it to the bucket, you can clearly see that they have just over 5 gallon of finished beer in the bucket. So it's not a 7%-plus ABV but rather something close to 5.8%-6.0%. They don't talk about it in the instructions but the instructions they give are sketchy. I'll brew this from the start as a 6 Gallon Batch, then top it with water at secondary just like they do in the video.

No more Biscuit Malt
Let's face it, it's an ESB-style beer brewed with Light Extracts. The Biscuit Malt is just there to mimic the biscuity flavour of a Maris Otter. If you use Maris Otter or any other floor-malted english grain, you don't need Biscuit Malt.

More Crystal, more complexity
I used a 80 L Crystal when I brewed this with extract. I wanted to get a similar "speciality grains" grain bill while getting the same color. I swapped the 12 oz 80 L Crystal for 12 oz 40 L Crystal. This will bring back the caramelly flavor you find in the extracts. I also replaced the now useless 8 oz Biscuit Malt by a 9 oz 120 L Crystal addition. Not only It bring back the same colour I had with the extract version, but it will bring some dry fruit notes and a dryer mouthfeel.

Bitterness
Here is where things will change the most. First, I think we all agree that this beer is somewhat not bitter enough by any standards. We're miles from any American Craft Ale bitterness and even quite far from the low-spectrum of the bitterness for an English ESB, which this beer is inspired from. Second, I hate to have to deal with half-ounces additions. I prefer adjusting the hopping schedule than being left with half or third-ounces. Plus my home-brew shop only sell flat-ounces, so I worked with that. Third, the hop schedule and the hop quantities they gave via e-mail and in the instructions don't match. I want it to be closer to a bitter hoppiness and flavor, without being harsh or getting over the honey/caramelly flavor. So I keep the same hops, adjust slightly the quantities and schedule and dry-hop a bit with a half-ounce.

Water and Yeast
I use de-mineralized water to brew. So I will add 1/2 tsp of Chalk to the 2 tsp of Gypsum. I will use the same Yeast, although
I'd be tempted to use Wyeast 1968 (Fuller's ESB) Yeast.

I hit pretty much all the same numbers in Beersmith for this recipe compared to when I enter the Extract version (ABV, Color) except for the adjusted bitterness.

Here's the recipe:

WATER
2.00 tbsp Gypsum
0.50 tbsp Chalk

MASH
10 lbs Maris Otter
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
9.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L

HOPS
1.50 oz EKG 60 min.
0.50 oz Fuggles 30 min.
1.50 oz Fuggles 0 min.
0.50 oz EKG Dry Hop 7 days

ADDITIONS
1.00 tsp Irish Moss 10 min.
1 lb Honey 0 min.

YEAST
1.0 pkg Windsor Yeast

Mash at 152. Primary for 5 days. Secondary for 14 days. Dry Hop the last 7 days. Prime with 0.75 cup of sugar


What do you think? Should this make a good brew?
Everything except the dry hopping, but that's just me.

I was surprised how different MO is. It definitely gives a beer a stronger malt flavor, which is perfect for this kind of beer. You think adding biscuit takes it over the top?

I did this with US-05, which I think changes it some, too. Probably a higher ABV. I think using a British ESB yeast would be a better choice than that.

I thought this was good but not great. Friends thought it was great. If I make it again, I'll probably follow the extract again, but leave out the DME. I think it would be better if it were a little less potent and more like an ESB or regular bitter.
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Old 04-26-2014, 02:02 PM   #868
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Everything except the dry hopping, but that's just me.

I was surprised how different MO is. It definitely gives a beer a stronger malt flavor, which is perfect for this kind of beer. You think adding biscuit takes it over the top?

I did this with US-05, which I think changes it some, too. Probably a higher ABV. I think using a British ESB yeast would be a better choice than that.

I thought this was good but not great. Friends thought it was great. If I make it again, I'll probably follow the extract again, but leave out the DME. I think it would be better if it were a little less potent and more like an ESB or regular bitter.
Well, I made an ESB recipe recently that called for biscuit malt and LME where I replaced the standard LME in the recipe for Maris Otter LME and felt the biscuity flavour was too upfront for my taste. But maybe it could still fit well with the sweet honey feel of this brew.

I wanted to dry hop just not to be left with a half-ounce or something. Anyway, most to that aroma would disappear after a couple of months.

I'm probably brewing next week the grain recipe I just posted but I'd also like to rebrew it again with extracts using Wyeast West Yorkshire. It would give a true ESB feel to it and this strain produces a super-creamy foam that feels almost like draft beer. I didn't like the flavors I got when the beer was just carbed but after a month it's just great!
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