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Old 06-21-2013, 06:34 PM   #21
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This is just not true as a blanket statement: If you see a kegs on Craigslist, it IS stolen

Many kegs on Craigslist I'm sure were not obtained legally but others were. Also, if this was that big of a deal to breweries then they would be pursuing these postings on Craigslist and eBay. I'm not saying its right to ignore a law but there are a lot of laws on the books that are not enforced. Bottom line I don't agree that this is really hurting the "entire brewing industry" that is way overblown. If it were then they would be doing something about it.
They are.

Please read this article I linked to earlier

Keg Shrinkage

Here are highlights from the article:

Sierra Nevada founder Ken Grossman, arguably the grandfather of the craft industry, said this to BBD yesterday:

"Keg theft has been a major thorn in my side for years. I have been on a warpath over this issue on behalf of our brewery and the industry. It's bad enough seeing our kegs stolen and misappropriated for use as furniture in frat houses, homebrew kettles, or just plain scrapped for a few dollars. Ebay and CraigsList often have stolen kegs listed for sale for a $15-$20 that might have been left over from a party or stolen from behind a bar or restaurant. It's a real issue for our industry, with new kegs costing over $100.

"Recently, I have been outraged at seeing our kegs being used by other breweries. In some cases there is no way they were mistakenly filled. They had obviously known the kegs had been stolen since they had attempted to cover up our embossed name and our identification colors had been painted over. In one case, they took the effort to grind off our name and use "Bondo" to try and obfuscate the evidence. There are even YouTube videos showing how to remove keg valves on illegally obtained kegs (some are mine), so they can be used for all sorts of other purposes. We have never sold any Sankey style half barrel kegs, so I know they weren't obtained legally. When I can track them down, I have personally called and unloaded on these brewers. Stealing from anyone is not OK." Bam!

"The fact is, you buy a keg with another brewer's name on it, the chances are it was probably stolen at some point in the supply chain, usually at retail."

From KegReturn.com

How much does keg loss cost craft brewers annually?

According to Brewers Association member brewery data, keg loss costs every brewer between $0.46 and $1.37 per-barrel of annual keg production. This varies depending on the size of the brewery, percent of beer produced that is sold in kegs and other factors. Assuming 2011 craft beer sales of 11.5 million barrels, that is a total direct capital charge to craft brewers of $5.3 million and $15.8 million annually.

The indirect costs of product outages at wholesale and at retail caused by a shortened keg float are likely far higher.

Why is keg scrapping and the illegal traffic of kegs such a big issue?

Many brewers have observed both the public and other brewers scrapping kegs that don’t belong to them. Depending on the current price of scrap stainless steel, the scrap value of a keg may be substantially more than the deposit cost. If a keg is in fact stolen, the scrap value is pure profit.

Many brewers favor legislation prohibiting the sale of kegs by anyone other than the titled owner, and in fact several states have such laws in place. Ebay and Craigslist routinely list kegs for sale, often explicitly showing the owners label or stamp. These kegs are destined to become furniture, barbecue grills, brewing equipment, or other uses not intended by the legal owner. The Brewers Association plans outreach to companies that facilitate the sale of kegs, requesting that they notify sellers that they must have legal title to kegs they sell.

Most brewers will request that other brewers simply provide them the opportunity to pay for the return of their kegs, with a phone call or an email. One brewer has suggested the development of a standardized email address: kegs@breweryname.com could help. Imprinting this information on each keg might simplify the notification process enough to help grease the wheels.


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Old 06-21-2013, 06:42 PM   #22
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Funny u say that cause we jus saved 30 kegs from the scrap yard that a local Budweiser distributer was told to get rid of.. So they do scrap them and they dont always remove the brewery name either
lots of detail missing here. the local distributor might not have had permission from HQ to get rid of them. "get rid of them" usually means "destroy", not just "get them out of my sight" - they don't want their old kegs floating around. just because they are intercepted from their intended fate (destruction) doesn't mean everything is OK.

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i have 3 legally purchased keggles.. One crom miami brewing co., one from petes wicked ales, and a busch keg.. All names are clear as day and 2 in pretty good cosmetic condition.. But all legally purchased
i don't doubt that your kegs are legal, but a lot of people hide behind "legally purchased" without knowing if the kegs were legally sourced. as someone mentioned above, if you buy a stolen car from a used car dealer, you have still bought stolen property and are liable to have it seized and returned to the rightful owner.

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20 years ago there were coca cola cops with inventory clipboards sniffing around restaurants. Today, if you hand delivered a "property of Coca Cola" embossed pin lock to a distributor, they'd cite you for littering .
right, but coca cola made the decision to decommission the kegs. it wasn't made for them, by thousands of people stealing the kegs, against their will. some day breweries might switch to another keg format, at which point the market will be flooded with sanke kegs... because the breweries decided to sell them off.


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Old 06-21-2013, 07:02 PM   #23
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silly thread.

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Old 06-21-2013, 07:02 PM   #24
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Gah. Keg police. Nothing that anyone says is going to make anyone throw out their keggle in the name of doing the "right" thing. People have always stolen, and always will. Unfortunately.

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Old 06-21-2013, 07:06 PM   #25
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Kegs sold on Craigslist are not ALWAYS stolen. Just last year I bought 35 decommissioned kegs from a AVL local brewery and every one of them were sold on Craigslist.

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Old 06-21-2013, 07:18 PM   #26
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We have a slightly different problem in SC... When you buy a keg and pay the deposit (I think it's $50-60 now?), there is a tag attached to the keg and it must stay with the keg. Additionally, the retailer wants to see your SALES RECEIPT when you return the keg to get the deposit back. If either the tag or the receipt are missing, you will NOT get a refund.

Often times, those are the kegs that you will see on Craigslist.

Some kegs on Craigslist are legit, I have no doubt. Some aren't.

http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/south-carolina/sc-code/south_carolina_code_61-4-1920

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Old 06-21-2013, 07:20 PM   #27
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Blanket statements about all kegs being sold are stolen is bs. I live less that 2 miles from a brewery that was selling kegs to home brew club so we can convert them to keggles. In fact I'm pretty sure the brewery sells already converted kegs.

If you're buying a keg to convert, you should be aware that there are a lot out there that are stolen, and if you feel like someone is selling a stolen keg, move on and find one that you're sure is not stolen.

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Old 06-21-2013, 07:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Misplaced_Canuck View Post
We have a slightly different problem in SC... When you buy a keg and pay the deposit (I think it's $50-60 now?), there is a tag attached to the keg and it must stay with the keg. Additionally, the retailer wants to see your SALES RECEIPT when you return the keg to get the deposit back. If either the tag or the receipt are missing, you will NOT get a refund.

Often times, those are the kegs that you will see on Craigslist.

Some kegs on Craigslist are legit, I have no doubt. Some aren't.

http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/south-carolina/sc-code/south_carolina_code_61-4-1920

MC
Of all the people to blame for major keg loss, in my opinion breweries should point the finger at the distributors. Often the distributor will not take back kegs with out receipts etc. Breweries shouldn't expect consumers to take a loss because they can't return the keg to a distributor. I think personally this is why many of the illegal kegs turn up on craigslist. People saying "I can't get my deposit back from the distributor, so maybe I can still get my money back on craigslist" They are still in the wrong, but the distributor kind of forced their hand.

I know I have a 1/6 barrel, and a 1/4 barrel that I cannot for life of me find a place that will take them, so they sit in my garage waiting until I end up at distributor that will take them back. Could I contact the breweries, maybe, but I don't have time to sit on the phone with AB until I get in contact with the guy who can give me directions to get the keg back to them(which will probably cause me great inconvenience).
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Old 06-21-2013, 08:06 PM   #29
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If you're going to steal a keg, steal one from AB. If they have money for frivolous lawsuits against microbreweries, then I think they can spare the $100 keg for a REAL (home)brewer!

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Old 06-21-2013, 08:07 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misplaced_Canuck View Post
We have a slightly different problem in SC... When you buy a keg and pay the deposit (I think it's $50-60 now?), there is a tag attached to the keg and it must stay with the keg. Additionally, the retailer wants to see your SALES RECEIPT when you return the keg to get the deposit back. If either the tag or the receipt are missing, you will NOT get a refund.

Often times, those are the kegs that you will see on Craigslist.

Some kegs on Craigslist are legit, I have no doubt. Some aren't.

http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/south-carolina/sc-code/south_carolina_code_61-4-1920

MC
Same problem in Washington. Seams like its the distributors making the problem worse. Why would I return a keg if I accidently lost the receipt and I'm not going to get my deposit back. Might as well try to sell it to recoup that deposit. I have never done this, and probably won't cause I keep my receipts, but I wouldn't blame the person I would blame the system.


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