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Old 02-19-2011, 08:27 PM   #11
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That makes sense, considering its been consistent with water sources, but it still seems odd you don't get the flavor before carbing. That's what made me think it was something between post ferm and racking to the keg. Good luck! I'm sure between these things, you'll have it resolved soon.

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Old 02-19-2011, 08:45 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by jitteringjr View Post
My brown ale still has it and it is taking a long time to attenuate the acetaldehyde. I also used WLP002 for that one. I know some yeasts are more prone to produce it, but I couldn't give you a list. Maybe this yeast is more susceptible.
Wlp002/1968 is known to sometimes cause off flavors after bottling/kegging. There has been some discussion about it in the English yeast thread. I even made a short post about it in my blog. I've used this yeast a lot and have never had it produce any discernible acetaldehyde flavors. Cidery, tart, metallic, and thin describe this off flavor pretty well.

What causes the metallic flavors in beer's not brewed with this yeast, I don't know.
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Old 02-21-2011, 03:46 AM   #13
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Wlp002/1968 is known to sometimes cause off flavors after bottling/kegging. There has been some discussion about it in the English yeast thread. I even made a short post about it in my blog. I've used this yeast a lot and have never had it produce any discernible acetaldehyde flavors. Cidery, tart, metallic, and thin describe this off flavor pretty well.

What causes the metallic flavors in beer's not brewed with this yeast, I don't know.
Thanks for the heads up on the British ale yeast thread. It is a long but interesting read. I really like your idea of using wlp005 for carbonation. If you said it in the thread, I missed it, but how much do you recommend adding to a 5 gal batch?

My brown ale could definitely defined as cidery, tart and thin, but I wouldn't call it metallic. Acetaldehyde by the why is often described as a Cidery flavor.

I have used wlp002 as my go to yeast for my porters and I haven't had off tastes with it before. The brown ale is the lightest beer I have put 002 in so maybe the darker malts helped hide it before. It didn't show any off tastes at bottling. FYI I have always used DME for priming in bottles with it. It sounds like from the British ale thread, that using corn sugar and other light priming sugars also caused this issue. The one difference I have done with those porters that I didn't do with the brown is a 50F crash for 2 weeks in the secondary. I am going to start doing longer primary ferments in my next few batches to see how this affects this and the next time I use wlp002 I am going to try the wlp005 for priming.
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Old 02-21-2011, 03:53 AM   #14
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Posted my water profile to the science section of the forum and it sounds like that's the problem. Super hard water and very high in Na. I'm going to try diluting it with RO water something like 5:1. We'll see.....
That is interesting. So too high of a mash PH causing tannins to come out. Its definitely a possibility. Have you had all bad batches since you stopped using RO?
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Old 02-21-2011, 03:58 AM   #15
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Posted my water profile to the science section of the forum and it sounds like that's the problem. Super hard water and very high in Na. I'm going to try diluting it with RO water something like 5:1. We'll see.....
So I never heard whether you're an extract or all grain brewer. If you're all grain, it's more important that you start working on water chemistry. If you're extract, RO water is definitely something to start with. Since the off taste is metallic, water profile is a likely candidate. The styles which you say give you this off flavor are also ones that don't need water that is hard or high in sulfate.
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:16 AM   #16
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That is interesting. So too high of a mash PH causing tannins to come out. Its definitely a possibility. Have you had all bad batches since you stopped using RO?
I was trying to remember this today....and I think YES! It definitely goes away with age, but takes long time to dissapear. I am brewing again next week with 9:1 RO and some salts, so we'll see! I really don't think it was the pH, but more the minerals in my water.
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:18 AM   #17
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So I never heard whether you're an extract or all grain brewer. If you're all grain, it's more important that you start working on water chemistry. If you're extract, RO water is definitely something to start with. Since the off taste is metallic, water profile is a likely candidate. The styles which you say give you this off flavor are also ones that don't need water that is hard or high in sulfate.
AG - see sig.

I would love this to be a thing of the past...
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:19 AM   #18
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Keep us updated on how that one goes.

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Old 02-21-2011, 04:23 AM   #19
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AG - see sig.

I would love this to be a thing of the past...
Ah, OK...now that you pointed that out, I see OK, for your next batch I'd just try bottled water with mineral salts. You won't need that much to get to your desired profile, and then if you have great results....then you can decide how much tap water to add to get desired hardness.
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Old 04-29-2011, 09:20 PM   #20
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** Update **

2 more 10 gallon batches and the culprit was the water! Zero of that off flavor now.

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