Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Beer Discussion > Using low AA hops

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-17-2012, 07:20 PM   #11
Hernando
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 484
Liked 12 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 107

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcell View Post
there are downsides to using lower AA hops in higher quantities. there will be a bit more wort retained in the additional vegetable matter. in the BYO magazine from a month ago ("Oh, Say Can You “C”?:  Brewing Hoppy American-Style Ales"), they had a reason why you shouldn't make an all-cascade IPA - something about all that vegetable matter adding undesirable flavors. i have the mag at home, i'll try to remember to look it up when i return on sunday.
I would defintely like to hear the downsides to this process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhamilton View Post
I suggest trying it out yourself.
Oh I will

Any thoughts on how this hopping process would play out with a black IPA? I wonder if the roasted malts would drown out the subtleties that you would perhaps get fromusing the lower alpha hops.
__________________
"Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn't drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, it is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver." --Jack Handey
O'tega Brewing
Hernando is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-17-2012, 07:54 PM   #12
sweetcell
Swollen Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
sweetcell's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,004
Liked 632 Times on 469 Posts
Likes Given: 247

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
I would defintely like to hear the downsides to this process.
please remind me here on sunday or monday, if i don't post it myself.

if i remember correctly (iffy statement), the idea was that adding 3 oz of cascade, vs. 1 oz of CTZ, means that you have 3 times the amount of vegetable matter in your boil - 3 times more fiber, chlorophyll, resins, etc. some of that stuff is good, some of it is bad and will impart a grassy flavor to your beer.

if anyone else here gets BYO mag and still has the "Oh say can you 'C'" issue, please feel free to confirm or correct me.
__________________
.
What hops should I grow? Hop grower's comparison table. Looking for cheap honey?

Drinking: a hop-bursted IPA w/ Conan, a farmhouse with ECY08 & brett blend
Fermenting: sour cherry mead
Aging: a bunch of belgian and soured stuff, and acerglyn.
Up next: either an imperial stout or something to use up my homegrown hops... TBD.
sweetcell is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-17-2012, 08:27 PM   #13
Hernando
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 484
Liked 12 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 107

Default

That makes logical sense Sweetcell. I usually don't get a crap load of fiborous matter. I use a 1 gallon paint strainer bag for my hopping bag and this makes for a great hops bag as it keeps a lot of the veggie matter out; even with pellets. I will no doubt get some but it is usually very little.

__________________
"Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn't drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, it is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver." --Jack Handey
O'tega Brewing
Hernando is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-18-2012, 03:33 PM   #14
Radegast
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Henrico, Virginia
Posts: 76
Liked 2 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 64

Default

I had a good experience making a very hoppy tasting beer with only 1.5 oz of Saaz. The beer was a very light bodied wheat beer (I chaptalized it with sugar which a) dried the beer and took the emphasis off of the malt and b) made sure the hops were boiled in a lower gravity wort)). I did half an ounce at 60 minutes and continuously added the rest over the last half hour. I also no-chilled to get the maximum out of the hops. The smell is intense, but the flavor is smooth. I would happily scale this process up to a fuller beer. I really do think it added something.

I also did my first ever harvest ale with a pound of fresh cascades. I strained the hops out when pouring to the fermenter and squeezed them to liberate the trapped beer. I don't know if that's kosher, but there sure was a lot of great smelling beer that came out of there.

__________________
Continuous Hopping IBU Calculator:
Available in OpenOffice or Excel format
Radegast is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-18-2012, 05:08 PM   #15
Denny
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eugene OR
Posts: 4,243
Liked 420 Times on 320 Posts
Likes Given: 503

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
I was doing a bit of reading and Randy Mosher suggested using lower AA hops in higher quantities rather than using high AA hops like CTZ, specifically for pale ales.

As I am heading to the LHBS this afternoon, I wanted to reach out to the community and see if anyone does this approach and what benefits you get (if any) out of using the low AA hops in higher quatities. I am still messing with my pale ale recipe an found a good malt foundation for it but I am still messing with the hop additions and just wanted some feedback on this.
Randy is a good friend, but I have to say that's kinda silly advice. For one thing, there's nothing wrong with using high alpha hops anywhere in the brew. For another, people who use large quantities of low alpha hops have noted a harsh grassiness in their beers from the large amount of "vegetation". Use whatever you need to get the results you want.
__________________

Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

http://www.experimentalbrew.com - the website for the book "Experimental Homebrewing"...coming Nov. 2014

Denny is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-18-2012, 05:14 PM   #16
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 60,580
Liked 4342 Times on 3157 Posts
Likes Given: 845

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
Randy is a good friend, but I have to say that's kinda silly advice. For one thing, there's nothing wrong with using high alpha hops anywhere in the brew. For another, people who use large quantities of low alpha hops have noted a harsh grassiness in their beers from the large amount of "vegetation". Use whatever you need to get the results you want.
I agree with Denny. (Not that Randy is a good friend, as I only met him once- I mean that there is nothing wrong with using higher AA hops! )

And you know, "harshness" is in the eye of the beerholder, after all.

Some people tell me that they can spot chinook in a beer a mile away, and find it harsh.

I can pick out chinook as well, but don't find it harsh in a way that is unpleasant. I like all-chinook beers, including dryhopping.

The same is probably true with higher AAU hops. Maybe someone would find them harsh or "dank" or something, while I find them quite pleasant.

But I would find excessive lower AAU hops to be vegetal or grassy. What is excessive? Well, again, it depends I guess. Nine ounces of tettnanger in a mostly pilsner malt beer (regardless of OG) would probably taste a little vegetal to me, while 1 ounce of warrior (assuming same OG and IBUs) would not. I hope that makes sense!
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2012, 05:53 AM   #17
Hernando
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 484
Liked 12 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 107

Default

This definetly makes sense. I usually do use the high alpha hops as well in a the majority of my batches; which is why I wanted to experiment with something a bit different.

I ended up adding an oz of palisade to kick it up just a bit in the bittering so we'll see how the brew turns out

__________________
"Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn't drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, it is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver." --Jack Handey
O'tega Brewing
Hernando is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2012, 03:02 PM   #18
sweetcell
Swollen Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
sweetcell's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,004
Liked 632 Times on 469 Posts
Likes Given: 247

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcell View Post
in the BYO magazine from a month ago ("Oh, Say Can You “C”?:  Brewing Hoppy American-Style Ales"), they had a reason why you shouldn't make an all-cascade IPA - something about all that vegetable matter adding undesirable flavors. i have the mag at home, i'll try to remember to look it up when i return on sunday.
quoting from above-mentioned issue:

"Tannins are most notorious of this group (polyphenols) because in large amounts they can cause your beer to become highly astringent. Since they mostly come from the plant material itself and not from the lupulin glands, using high alpha hops in your bitter beers will get you the alpha acids you need and keep those pucker face inducing tannins in check. If you have any ideas about making an all Cascade Imperial IPA, you may want to think twice. It could end up a little rough around the edges - not to mention suffer from severe beer loss!"

(BYO Magazine, July-August, page 35)
__________________
.
What hops should I grow? Hop grower's comparison table. Looking for cheap honey?

Drinking: a hop-bursted IPA w/ Conan, a farmhouse with ECY08 & brett blend
Fermenting: sour cherry mead
Aging: a bunch of belgian and soured stuff, and acerglyn.
Up next: either an imperial stout or something to use up my homegrown hops... TBD.
sweetcell is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2012, 04:06 AM   #19
Hernando
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 484
Liked 12 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 107

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcell
quoting from above-mentioned issue:

"Tannins are most notorious of this group (polyphenols) because in large amounts they can cause your beer to become highly astringent. Since they mostly come from the plant material itself and not from the lupulin glands, using high alpha hops in your bitter beers will get you the alpha acids you need and keep those pucker face inducing tannins in check. If you have any ideas about making an all Cascade Imperial IPA, you may want to think twice. It could end up a little rough around the edges - not to mention suffer from severe beer loss!"

(BYO Magazine, July-August, page 35)
Thanks for looking into this for me. I don't think I would ever do a IIPA with low Alpha hops but I did do a black pale ale last night and ended up with a 67 IBU ale. Using 1 oz of palisade and 2 oz of willamette. It definitely was a lot more mellow than the everyday pale ale so we'll see how it ferments out.
__________________
"Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn't drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, it is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver." --Jack Handey
O'tega Brewing
Hernando is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-04-2012, 11:13 PM   #20
Hernando
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 484
Liked 12 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 107

Default

Well fermentation completed approx 6 days after I pitched. I let it sit for a bit longer and bottled this beer this morning. The hydro samples tasted really good. I defintely would have to say this is closer to a robust porter than a pale ale. The hops are definitely there but it is amazingly smooth and flavorful.

I am actually thinking of entering this one in my first comp but wouldn't be sure how to classify the style. It is almost dead on for a robust porter but the IBU's are to high (at least on paper); taste wise, I don't think they would know there were 67 IBU's. Granted this is prior to proper carbing and maturation so it's still up in the air. I am pretty happy with this so far though.

I'll post a pic once it's carbed and I pour the first glass. If anyone could shed thoughts though for BJCP classification that would be great. If you need to know more about the beer I can definitely post that too. Cheers!

__________________
"Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn't drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, it is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver." --Jack Handey
O'tega Brewing
Hernando is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hops Substitute (Bad year for New Zealand Hops) jhart94949 General Beer Discussion 1 05-25-2012 12:43 AM
Fresh hops or dead hops? Gonzo General Beer Discussion 4 09-10-2011 08:28 PM
Whole Leaf Hops Vs Pellet Hops how to use? JLW General Beer Discussion 5 06-17-2011 04:08 PM
Storing Hops from hops direct Steven4est General Beer Discussion 13 10-17-2010 12:24 PM
Fresh hops to pellet hops? mike1978 General Beer Discussion 4 01-11-2010 01:31 AM