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Old 01-27-2013, 03:37 PM   #11
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Found... it

https://sites.google.com/site/republicbrewpub/

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Old 01-27-2013, 04:09 PM   #12
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Nice, thanks!
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:37 PM   #13
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There is actually quite a bit of information in his blog posts as well that relates to a start up. The files are great but the actual blog here has some good reading also.

http://republicbrewpub.blogspot.ca/

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Old 01-27-2013, 06:45 PM   #14
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There's a ton of factors to how cheap you can make it.

Equipment, if you are either building most yourself or from a friend can be done on the cheap side. Tanks, Carbonating, Kegging ect will cost you something but again, reuse dairy tanks, different types of keg loaning etc.
Ingredients (Grain, Yeast Hops) will cost you and harder to get absolute wholesale when being such a small size.
Then having a tap room with a register, could just be the cost of an Ipad or if you want to go cheaper, your phone, but you lose a % on each transaction, then glassware, dishwasher, taps, gas so on.
So now you have the brewery and tap room and honestly I would say 20k+ at this point and this is bare minimum which will be hard on developing a brand since you will be so focused on getting your product ready than anything else. Also coming in at 20k, you will not see a profit for a very very long time if ever. It will honestly be a hobby that you are putting way too much effort into.

Last and its a big one is city/county/state regulations and when it comes to the building. Depending where you are this can be very simple or excruciating painful. Not knowing what your city/county wants is what will really help determine costs. Making sure its zone correctly for use and then your square footage meets all codes which could be parking spaces, bathrooms, sprinklers, exits, water waste plans, waste plans. Again location is dependent on how easy/hard this is. Also insurance payments, brewers bonds and probably lots of little things that people forget.

I guess end of my rant is, don't do it unless you are beyond serious about following through and my suggestion to figure out this is start putting everything on paper, make your business plan, do your research which all this will take time, if your still interested then maybe but its a lot of work especially for a single person. Its not impossible but it is something you have to go above and beyond to be successful.

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Old 01-27-2013, 09:28 PM   #15
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You'd save some money in all of this if you used casks and not kegs. No CO2 carbonation, no specialised equipment, etc.

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Old 01-27-2013, 09:42 PM   #16
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Hey Hey!

Been a while since I've been on the ole Home Brew Talk however during my time away I've been working on a nano brewery start up called the Frothy Beard Brewing Company in Charleston, SC. Just last week we got our federal papers in and are still waiting on state. Though I am by no means an expert there are a couple things I have learned that you should consider when choosing between a Nano Brewery and Brew Pub. First of all, brewpubs are incredibly expensive. The funny part is that it's not the brewery section that creates this expense but the restaurant part. Multiple employee's, health insurance, workman's comp, taxes, licensing, building costs, and food expenses mount up quickly. Here in Charleston, I wouldn't even think about starting a brew pub without $200,000.00 in the bank. (and that money should be used to secure a larger loan to even get into the ballpark) There are exceptions however; I have often thought of a brewcafe type thing that would require the menu to be heavily limited and cheap with little to no food prep experience to prepare but if you are here in SC you won't be able to distribute and sell beer out of the cafe/pub. You have to choose one or the other.

Getting back to your question, we are starting with a large amount of equipment that we already own and even then we are required to heavily modify it so that we can cut corners. (IE turning our boil kettle into an electric kettle to save money on fuel) We started this project about 3 years ago and I estimate that our total money spent right now is probably near the $20k region for everything. Keep in mind that this number also reflects the fact that we had to finance our kegs because if we were to buy them outright the kegs alone would cost $13,600.00 for 200 1/6's and I'm talking about the plastic sankes, none of that fancy schmancy aluminum people keep talking about. That goes for fermenters too. Don't even think about aluminum. You can't afford it. I would say as a general rule that if you require anything made out of aluminum you should immediately think can this piece of equipment be made out of plastic and still perform the same function? That thought alone will save you hundreds of dollars for your start-up. Also, glycol systems are out the window as well because you won't be able to afford the aluminum conicals, let alone the ones that are jacketed, so expect to keep a large enough space at fermentation temps.

Here in the wonderfully conservative state of South Carolina breweries aren't allowed to serve pints, only 4, 4oz tastings and growlers. Also, the three tier system still reigns supreme so distribution cost is a factor as well for us. It sounds like TohperM's fellow brewclub member lives in a much more suitable state with more flexibility. We chose to start in South Carolina because the laws are changing rapidly, the market isn't over saturated and Charleston itself has a vibrant local scene.

Hope this info helps!

Steve
Hey there,

How easy was it getting your federal permit? I'm in the process of starting a nano as well. I have secured my business license and have started the process of securing the state and federal licensing. It sounds like from talking with my state agent that the Feds are hard to deal with. Especially on location choices. What has been your experience?

Thanks
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:34 PM   #17
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With any business, the number one reason for failure is under capitalization. You need to have enough money to sustain you while your in your growth phase.If you take what you think you'll need for Startup, and Operating costs, and double it, you'll be in good shape. Instead of asking what the minimum costs will be, sit down work out a Biz plan, get and honest sense of how much it will cost. Don't try to do it with the minimum of funds, make sure you have plenty to absorb the bumps. If you cant raise the cash and reserves you'll regret it.

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Old 01-28-2013, 05:54 PM   #18
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He started with $20,000 in kickstarter funds and another $20,000 of his own $$$ for the equipment for a 1+BBL nono-brewery, not including whatever he pays in rent. He's been open since August.

That's about the minimum for a small, nice local nano brewery/taproom.
Even if you did manage to overpay for a walk-in as much as this guy may have done, I can assure you the real costs are going to be much higher. Legal fees, brewers bond, liquor liability, other insurance, ingredients contracts, fuel, utilities, NNN costs, and equipment service are small expenses that add up incredibly fast.

That's to say nothing of the sweat equity that goes into an operation like this, where your design and construction of your equipment and space will be nearly 100% DIY on the nano scale. If you don't have the back or the knees to build your space out yourself and assemble your equipment (large) and will be paying someone to do it, you can easily double or triple your costs. Also: don't expect to draw a salary for a couple of years. The nano thing can work, but nobody's supporting a family on it out of the gate.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:19 AM   #19
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To Morticus- We filed electronically and it took us 47 days to get our federal papers from the TTB. Which is an astoundingly fast turnaround. From other brewers that I have spoken to it generally takes 50-150 days, it all depends on how many mistakes are in the forms that are submitted and location approval. For us we submitted the paperwork, then got our license. So, I would say it is fairly easy but, I have heard horror stories of the 90-180 day experience.

Location approval, federally, was a pretty easy process as well. We submitted pictures of the inside and the outside of the place with a drawing of equipment placement and that was it. I will say that extensive research was done prior to submitting the paperwork that included county zoning rules and zoning specifications to operate a brewery in that county.

What state do you live in? In South Carolina churches are everywhere. So, just finding a building that wasn't 500 ft from a church was a task in it self. We even ran into one warehouse owner who wouldn't even show us a space once he found out what business we wanted to get into. Each state has their own hurdles I guess.

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Old 01-31-2013, 04:29 AM   #20
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s1080- Thanks for the info. We are located in Oregon. We just recently formed our LLC, obtained our business license, and now we are applying for the state and federal licenses. We have most of our equipment, and are in the process of setting up our operation while we wait for the licensing to be approved. It's a long process but fun.

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