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Old 09-07-2012, 11:24 AM   #1
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Default Sour Beer

Why would my Blue Moon cloan beer have gotten so sour it is hard to drink?
It was an all grain brew, let it in primary for 18 days. Racked to keg & carbed on this past saturday tryed it last night & it was sour as hell.
Anyone have any ideas on what i need to do?

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Old 09-07-2012, 12:22 PM   #2
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Probably severe sanitation issues. Or you accidentally pitched Roeselare.

But seriously, we're going to need a process/recipe here.

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Old 09-07-2012, 01:18 PM   #3
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I would guess infection, particularly if it didn't taste sour before fermenting.

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Old 09-07-2012, 01:29 PM   #4
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Here it is followed to the "T"



Originally Posted by Wayne1

In February I proposed a recipe variant based on reports of thin bodied beers being made from the original recipe I posted.

I made a batch of that recipe, with a few changes, not too long ago. The recipe with the Vienna malt yields a VERY full bodied beer. Too much so, IMHO.

Everyone's system and technique is different and the results of a recipe brewed on one system will be different from almost anyone else.

I have found NO problems, with thin body, mashing the oats with the rest of the grain. I do suggest you give it a try. If, for you, your beer has a thin body, then go for the boiling oats.

The amount of spices used will be different for almost everyone. It appears that no two people are using the exact same spices. Some use pre-ground coriander, some use fresh, some use fresh oranges and zest them, some use pre-ground orange peel. Each variation will require different amounts in the kettle.

I will say that I do agree that 1 ounce of fresh ground coriander is too much.

As a rough guideline, try between 0.25 and 0.5 ounces of fresh ground coriander 10 minutes before the end of the boil. Anything else, you will have to try on your own.

For orange peel, it depends on what state it is in. I used to use very finely ground Valencia orange peel. Perhaps the McCormicks is the closest to that. Other forms of orange peel will require quite a larger amount to get the same amount of flavor. I used a dehydrated, minced orange peel from a local spice shop. Savory Spice

I used 0.3 oz and it was nowhere near enough. I also added about 0.5 oz in a bag in conditioning. It helped, but the amount of orange was quite reduced from Blue Moon. Depending on what form of orange peel you are using, I would suggest starting at 1 oz and adjusting from there.

For my system and brewing style, I believe the first recipe is pretty darn close to reproducing grain portion of Blue Moon. I might even suggest using Pilsener Malt. The Vienna just added way too much fullness and body.

My current suggestion for a homebrew version of Blue Moon would use.

5.5 lbs Weyermann Bohemian Pils malt
4.5 lbs Weyermann Pale Wheat malt
1.4 lbs flaked oats
0.5 lbs rice hulls

Mash at 154F for 60 min. Add 2 gallons 200 F water for mash out to achieve 168F Hold for 10 min.

1.2 oz Hallertauer (4.3 AA) full length of boil 60-90 min.
0.5-0.7 oz fresh ground coriander (10 min before boil end)
1.0 oz sweet or Valencia Orange Peel (amount will depend on how finely ground the spice is and if it is fresh zest or dried) (5 min before end of boil)

I would currently suggest using either US-04 or Windsor dried yeast (rehydrated according to directions on packet) US-05 or 1056 might finish too dry. You do want a little sweetness to get close to current Blue Moon flavor.

For my system and style, I ferment 2 weeks in one vessel and then transfer to another vessel for an additional week of conditioning. I then transfer to a keg and carbonate cold under pressure.

With this last batch, I found the flavor of the beer to have an upfront bitter edge to it for about a month in the keg. This did finally go away and the end result was very smooth. I also noticed this bitterness in another beer I made with the dehydrated peel I purchased from the spice shop. My guess is that some of the bitter pith was included in the peel.

The end result, after 4-6 weeks, in the keg was very pleasing. The body very big, the orange flavor on the low side and it was drier than the current Blue Moon. I think with the changes I listed above and some experimentation on your part, you can come very close to what is being offered in the bars and stores today.

As I have mentioned through out this thread and especially this post, a lot will depend on the exact ingredients you use. This recipe does call for a bit of individual fine tuning for each person's gear and brewing style.

I hope some more of you try this and report back your results.

Cheers,
Wayne

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Old 09-07-2012, 01:38 PM   #5
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What kind of orange peel did you use and how much? Dried or fresh? What did you use to sanitize and what was your process for sanitizing all your equipment?

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Old 09-07-2012, 01:39 PM   #6
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What kind of sourness is it? Lactic? Acetic? Citric? What's the pH of the beer?

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Old 09-07-2012, 02:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktblunden View Post
What kind of orange peel did you use and how much? Dried or fresh? What did you use to sanitize and what was your process for sanitizing all your equipment?
Mc Cormic dried sweet orange peel. I use starsan & have never had a infected batch in the 2 years i've been brewing.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:50 PM   #8
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Blend it out with another batch for awesomeness. Just drink it all quickly!

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Old 09-07-2012, 07:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pascott6 View Post
Mc Cormic dried sweet orange peel. I use starsan & have never had a infected batch in the 2 years i've been brewing.
No offense, but it happens to the best of us. I've unintentionally infected a batch more than I'd like to admit. Overlook one part of the process and it all turns to sh*t. You brew, you learn.

You included your recipe and boil process, but nothing after the boil. How did you chill? Where did you ferment? How did you rack to a keg? Are your draft lines clean? Was the keg thoroughly cleaned and sanitized before filling?
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:19 PM   #10
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I have a party pig full of beer that tastes like pickles...

If it is CRAZY sour but doesn't taste bad I would blend in some maraschino cherry juice into the drinking glass and say it is a poorman's lambic...and drink it all ASAP. these flavors NEVER go away and only get stronger...

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