Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Beer Discussion > Selling of the Homebrew...
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-09-2012, 07:06 PM   #1
sheeshomatic
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 186
Liked 4 Times on 2 Posts

Default Selling of the Homebrew...

I know there have been threads about whether or not people sell their beer to friends, family, etc - even people starting nanobreweries and whatnot. I'm hoping this question is a little different.

I've been brewing for a few years, and just like most of you, it's starting to become a pretty regular habit and sometimes a near obsession. I've displaced much of my freezer space for hops and I have storage bins for sacks of grain. A lot of this has been at the behest of my friends who are generally astounded that anyone can make beer this good using basically a cooler and a turkey fryer.

They all want to buy it. They tell their friends about it. They have tried it. They want to buy it. Not a bad problem to have at all. The trouble is of course, doing it legally. NJ is not known for being very simple about selling alcohol. I could do everything under the table of course, but if I start selling a few thousand dollars worth of beer a year, then I'd rather do it on the up and up if I can.

Here's my idea - I'd like to sell custom recipes to my customers. They ask for a particular kind of beer, or choose from one of my own creations. Then, they purchase the INGREDIENTS from me (at a premium of course). They give them to me and come back 6 weeks later for their ingredients, which somehow were turned into liquid. So, they're not buying the beer per se, but the grain, hops and yeast. I'm giving them the beer. I could then start a simple LLC and not have to worry about the ATF banging my door down. I'm thinking they probably would anyway - anyone have any thoughts?

__________________
www.devilswaterbrewery.com

On Tap at DWB
#1 - Seamus Stout
#2 - The Darling - Clementine Hefeweizen
Conditioning/Fermenting
#1 - Breakfast of Champions
#2 - Four Horsemen Imperial IPA
sheeshomatic is offline
 
Quick reply to this message
Old 01-09-2012, 07:13 PM   #2
fineexampl
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 666
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

You're treading on very shaky ground there, friend. If you do that and someone gets sick, blames you, reports you, ATF comes to your home, etc. ruining your chances of brewing legit later on down the line.

The rules are simple: legal to brew it, legal own it, legal to drink it. the second you sell it, you're breaking the law. end of story, i'm afraid.

However, if your friends gifted you grain, hops, yeast and you turned it into beer as a gift to them, that's probably different. You cannot make a profit. You make a profit, you must be taxed. Not only a NJ law, but a federal one AFAIK.

__________________

Primary: Highway 35 Scotch Ale (Highway 78 clone), second runnings small beer

Bottled: Pitch Black Sheep IPA, Juniper Fail/Ale

Kegged: Apollo Pale Ale, South River Brown

fineexampl is offline
 
Quick reply to this message
Old 01-09-2012, 07:16 PM   #3
teresalgl
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: BL, MN
Posts: 93
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fineexampl View Post
You're treading on very shaky ground there, friend. If you do that and someone gets sick, blames you, reports you, ATF comes to your home, etc. ruining your chances of brewing legit later on down the line.

The rules are simple: legal to brew it, legal own it, legal to drink it. the second you sell it, you're breaking the law. end of story, i'm afraid.

However, if your friends gifted you grain, hops, yeast and you turned it into beer as a gift to them, that's probably different. You cannot make a profit. You make a profit, you must be taxed. Not only a NJ law, but a federal one AFAIK.
I would go the gifting route, perhaps keeping half of the "gift".
__________________
teresalgl is offline
 
Quick reply to this message
Old 01-09-2012, 07:17 PM   #4
sheeshomatic
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 186
Liked 4 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fineexampl View Post
You're treading on very shaky ground there, friend. If you do that and someone gets sick, blames you, reports you, ATF comes to your home, etc. ruining your chances of brewing legit later on down the line.

The rules are simple: legal to brew it, legal own it, legal to drink it. the second you sell it, you're breaking the law. end of story, i'm afraid.

However, if your friends gifted you grain, hops, yeast and you turned it into beer as a gift to them, that's probably different. You cannot make a profit. You make a profit, you must be taxed. Not only a NJ law, but a federal one AFAIK.
Good point about the health issues. To be clear, I'd plan on reporting the profit on the GRAIN sales to the state. The customer would then gift the grain back to me and I'd gift them the beer.

It sounds wacky, but this state works in odd ways. We have a lot of dry towns- they can't have a bar, or sell alcohol at a restaurant, yet they can have liquor stores. There are at least two restaurants near me that have liquor/wine stores IN the restaurant. You can ask your waiter to go buy you a bottle of cab and she'll bring it to your table, etc.. It's insanity.
__________________
www.devilswaterbrewery.com

On Tap at DWB
#1 - Seamus Stout
#2 - The Darling - Clementine Hefeweizen
Conditioning/Fermenting
#1 - Breakfast of Champions
#2 - Four Horsemen Imperial IPA
sheeshomatic is offline
 
Quick reply to this message
Old 01-09-2012, 07:17 PM   #5
Zamial
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: WI
Posts: 3,184
Liked 168 Times on 149 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

It is a bad idea. The finished product is beer and that means you are selling it. You can use as fancy of wording as you like but it is illegal to sell homebrew, no exceptions.
When you sell the beer you create legally, you are a brewery and are no longer selling homebrew but comercial beer, IMO stop thinking about making money and start getting people involved with homebrewing.

__________________
“I'm not drunk, I'm from Wisconsin.”
We have been out drinking your state since 1848!
Zamial is offline
 
Quick reply to this message
Old 01-09-2012, 07:17 PM   #6
zepolmot
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Palo Alto, California
Posts: 198
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

But you're doing the brewing for them, which is selling them beer. NJ Homebrew Law states pretty clearly that home produced alcohol is for personal or household consumption. I would say "mysteriously" giving it away to someone does not fall within either of those. Though, if you really would consider doing this illegally, why would you even post it on the internet?

__________________
zepolmot is offline
 
Quick reply to this message
Old 01-09-2012, 07:18 PM   #7
nukinfuts29
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pike County, MO
Posts: 1,657
Liked 28 Times on 27 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

NJ sucks, federal jam ups from illegal doings suck more.

Do it right or dont do it. Nobody here is going to encourage you to break the law. We enjoy our rights and dont want scam artists and back room deals to ruin them.

__________________

My Recipes: Drunken Emu Hard Cider, Drunken Emu Mississippi River Water
The Jack Keller Collection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt_Kirks View Post
Patience, my Padawon. The yeast can sense your tension.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
Maybe you want to educate yourself instead of just having a bunch of pre-conceived notions based on ignorance.
nukinfuts29 is offline
 
Quick reply to this message
Old 01-09-2012, 07:27 PM   #8
Tinga
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 1,160
Liked 36 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

For once I would like someone to bring an idea like this to the state to try to get it approved and tell us first hand how it goes. Pretty sure it wouldn't happen but I would feel better than a bunch of internet strangers telling you you can't do something.

another thought.... If you could do this wouldn't you be harming the existing commercial brewing industry? I mean you provide the same product but without all the regulation and taxation the real breweries are subject to giving this business model an unfair advantage.

__________________
Tinga is offline
 
Quick reply to this message
Old 01-09-2012, 07:29 PM   #9
zepolmot
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Palo Alto, California
Posts: 198
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

@Tinga
Which is why it isn't legal.

__________________
zepolmot is offline
 
Quick reply to this message
Old 01-09-2012, 07:30 PM   #10
Ramitt
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Ramitt's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bloomington, Indiana
Posts: 1,090
Liked 61 Times on 58 Posts
Likes Given: 158

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nukinfuts29 View Post
We enjoy our rights and dont want scam artists and back room deals to ruin them.
this, +1.

If this is what you really want to do research becoming a nano brewery.
__________________
Ramitt is offline
 
Quick reply to this message
Closed Thread



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Selling homebrew? sudsmonkey General Beer Discussion 31 02-07-2012 10:10 PM
Selling beers at a bar Zwan05 General Beer Discussion 13 04-19-2011 10:40 PM
Selling my product jlaureanti General Beer Discussion 28 11-30-2010 04:00 AM
Impossible Quest! Selling homebrew! echotraveler General Beer Discussion 10 06-04-2010 05:49 PM
Selling recipe Richo General Beer Discussion 7 03-05-2008 07:28 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS