Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Beer Discussion > Scotch Ale. An aquired taste?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-10-2012, 10:28 PM   #51
weirdboy
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,981
Liked 434 Times on 354 Posts
Likes Given: 63

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpetbeard View Post
Now that the discussion and defense of the style is over, anyone have a good Scotch ale recipe? I got the itch to try my hand at the style.
My wee heavy won a gold medal recently, but I still think there's room for improvement. As an experiment, I also entered it as a Belgian quad, although with more carbonation, and it won a bronze in that category.
__________________
weirdboy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2012, 06:25 PM   #52
Zabuza
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 172
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patto1ro View Post
Except that isn't the way brewers in Scotland malted. Scottish breweries were almost all in the central Lowland belt that runs from Edinburgh to Glasgow. A region where there's no peat, but loads of coal. The distilleries that use peated malt are all in the Highlands and Islands, miles away from where the breweries were.

Here are maps that demonstrate my point:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.nl/20...h-brewing.html

There's no evidence that any Scottish brewer used peat-dried malt. Then again, low fermentation temperatures, long caramelising boils and low hop rates aren't suupported by historical evidence, either.
Alright, fair enough. The fact that peat was used to fire farmer's grain-drying ovens all over Scotland for thousands of years, however, seems to be a good point in that discussion. Still, my hat's off to you, sir - I didn't know the distilleries were waxing poetic and that scottish lore was slightly off. It's quite clear that there is good evidence for thinking that peat was not used by distilleries/breweries in historic scotland.

According to this argument, though, it's apparently just a recent invention of the scots to perfume the malt with peat (since, historically speaking, peat was not used to dry the malt). Apparently, then, peaty scotch whisky is not "to style" with regards to how whisky was made in scotland, historically speaking. This fact, however, doesn't seem to make it any less scottish...regardless, it still seems to me that using peated malt in a scottish ale is in line with the spirit of the style (since this is such a common practice with whisky) even if it is not in line with the letter of the style or even it's history. That seems odd - perhaps I'm putting too much emphasis on how "scottish" peaty scotches are.
__________________
Zabuza is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2012, 07:08 PM   #53
Whattawort
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: East Bumfark, Yonder
Posts: 912
Liked 99 Times on 84 Posts
Likes Given: 34

Default

I'm pretty sure you're over thinking and analyzing this.

__________________

Bottled - Swamp Water Mead
Kegged - Ryerish Red
Fermenting - Plinius Maior

“For a quart of Ale is a dish for a king.”
― William Shakespeare

Whattawort is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2012, 07:20 PM   #54
trumpetbeard
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 78
Liked 6 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdboy View Post
My wee heavy won a gold medal recently, but I still think there's room for improvement. As an experiment, I also entered it as a Belgian quad, although with more carbonation, and it won a bronze in that category.
Would you care to share?

I've been going over the recipes in the recipe section trying to construct a prototypical wee heavy, but I'd be interested to see yours as well. Needless to say there's a ton of variation and not a whole ton of overlap.

Congrats on the medals!
__________________
trumpetbeard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2012, 08:27 PM   #55
patto1ro
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 226
Liked 21 Times on 17 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabuza View Post
Alright, fair enough. The fact that peat was used to fire farmer's grain-drying ovens all over Scotland for thousands of years, however, seems to be a good point in that discussion. Still, my hat's off to you, sir - I didn't know the distilleries were waxing poetic and that scottish lore was slightly off. It's quite clear that there is good evidence for thinking that peat was not used by distilleries/breweries in historic scotland.

According to this argument, though, it's apparently just a recent invention of the scots to perfume the malt with peat (since, historically speaking, peat was not used to dry the malt). Apparently, then, peaty scotch whisky is not "to style" with regards to how whisky was made in scotland, historically speaking. This fact, however, doesn't seem to make it any less scottish...regardless, it still seems to me that using peated malt in a scottish ale is in line with the spirit of the style (since this is such a common practice with whisky) even if it is not in line with the letter of the style or even it's history. That seems odd - perhaps I'm putting too much emphasis on how "scottish" peaty scotches are.
Wow. Did you actually bother to read what I wrote?

Whisky, beer - different drinks.
__________________
patto1ro is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-05-2013, 04:03 PM   #56
Zabuza
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 172
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Not to revive an old thread, but yes, I did bother to read it. I just found your argument rather poor. Peat wasn't used in whisky either until relatively recently (that map you linked showed the lack of peat sources near distilleries), so, ex hypothesi, Scottish whiskies with peat in them aren't very Scottish.

I'm sort of running a reductio, as it were. If your line of reasoning was valid, we should be able to conclude that Scottish whiskies aren't very Scottish because of their recent (or non-historical) use of peat. However, Scottish whiskies are very Scottish (I take it saying scotch is not very Scottish is prima facie implausible). Therefore, the line of reasoning used to arrive at that conclusion is invalid.

I get your point, that scotch ales did not use peat for a large part of their history, and home brewers incorporating peated malt is a recent spin that doesn't jive with the historical truth of the matter. The problem is that this is exactly what was done with scotch, only it's been sustained for a longer period of time. What I was trying to say is given how one of the biggest defining characteristics of scotch is its peat, and the overwhelming sense of pride Scottish people have about their scotch, it's clearly a very "Scottish idea" (as it were) to add peat to a fermented malt beverage. So, it may not be a Scottish ale according to BJCP-like criteria, but it still seems rather damn Scottish to me.

__________________
Zabuza is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-05-2013, 06:34 PM   #57
patto1ro
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 226
Liked 21 Times on 17 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabuza View Post
I get your point, that scotch ales did not use peat for a large part of their history, and home brewers incorporating peated malt is a recent spin that doesn't jive with the historical truth of the matter. The problem is that this is exactly what was done with scotch, only it's been sustained for a longer period of time. What I was trying to say is given how one of the biggest defining characteristics of scotch is its peat, and the overwhelming sense of pride Scottish people have about their scotch, it's clearly a very "Scottish idea" (as it were) to add peat to a fermented malt beverage. So, it may not be a Scottish ale according to BJCP-like criteria, but it still seems rather damn Scottish to me.
Except Scottish breweries didn't use peated malt in the 19th or 20th centuries. It's breweries outside Scotland that have run with the peat thing.
__________________
patto1ro is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-05-2013, 06:40 PM   #58
JonM
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JonM's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 4,823
Liked 926 Times on 637 Posts
Likes Given: 88

Default

This somehow reminds me of the giant chicken gag in Family Guy. Months and months and months go by where everyone goes about their daily lives and then BAM, out of the blue, Peter and the giant chicken pick up fighting right where they left off last time.

__________________
Who is this Rorschach guy? And why did he paint so many pictures of my parents fighting?
JonM is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-05-2013, 08:06 PM   #59
Zabuza
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 172
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patto1ro
Except Scottish breweries didn't use peated malt in the 19th or 20th centuries. It's breweries outside Scotland that have run with the peat thing.
Alright, now that's a good point. You're right, it's mainly a American craft brewing invention - Scottish breweries even to this day rarely if ever use peated malt. If it ever becomes a widespread practice, though...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonM
This somehow reminds me of the giant chicken gag in Family Guy. Months and months and months go by where everyone goes about their daily lives and then BAM, out of the blue, Peter and the giant chicken pick up fighting right where they left off last time.
Lol, nice! It is a lot like that. Good to be active again.
__________________
Zabuza is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best Scotch Ale hoptualBrew General Beer Discussion 24 06-09-2012 06:27 PM
Which Scotch ale to buy? TheMan General Beer Discussion 19 10-13-2011 06:07 PM
Scotch Porter? mbaker33 General Beer Discussion 1 09-11-2011 05:32 PM
Scotch in beer. dawgman General Beer Discussion 23 03-24-2011 04:22 PM
Beer - an aquired taste?? Slipgate General Beer Discussion 19 08-02-2008 05:43 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS