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Old 10-04-2012, 05:24 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Whattawort View Post
Taquair House Ale. That is all.
This.

Doesn't get much better.


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Old 10-04-2012, 05:24 PM   #32
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Was the scotch ale you tried that oak aged Innis and Gunn? I love Scotch ales but I bought a bottle of that stuff to try because it sounded interesting and had a very hard time finishing it.
The oak added a harsh almost medicinal bitterness to the beer. Try some others that other posters suggested before you write off the style.



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Old 10-04-2012, 05:25 PM   #33
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With all due respect, as I am sure Jamil is an EXCELLENT brewer, I would disagree with his assessment that smoked malt is inappropriate in a Scotch Ale.

First of all, the BJCP guidelines specifically mention smoked malt and while the BJCP is certainly not the be-all-end all of brewing "rules," it DOES seem to be the most cited reference when you are dealing with styles concerning homebrew. For this reason, I do not understand how he can say the ingredient is inappropriate.

In addition to this, the character of "smoke" or "peat" in the beer must have originated somewhere. How do we know this character did not start in Scotland? Absence of evidence does not prove a negative. If ANYthing, one could look at historical references from Scotland and probably make a pretty strong case for using heather in the beer more than anything.

With that said, do I feel smoked malt (or even smoke character) is necessary in a Scotch Ale? ...absolutely not... but do I feel we should have one brewer's OPINION of a beer determine what builds a beer style? ...again, no way.

Oh, I just had a couple of Founder's Dirty Bastards last night and LOVED it! I think I'll drink the rest of the 6-pack tonight
I believe Jamil's comments in BCS regarding the use of smoke malt is because homebrewers have a tendency to vastly over do it with this ingredient.

From the BJCP 2008 guidelines (http://www.bjcp.org/docs/2008_Guidelines.pdf) on the Scottish styles:

"The malt-hop balance is slightly to moderately tilted towards the malt side. Any caramelization comes from kettle caramelization and not caramel malt (and is sometimes confused with diacetyl). Although unusual, any smoky character is yeast or water derived and not from the use of peat-smoked malts. Use of peat-smoked malts to replicate the peaty character should be restrained; overly smoky beers should be entered in the Other Smoked Beer category (22B) rather than here."
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:53 PM   #34
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FWIW - Had a Founder's Dirty Bastard for the first time yesterday. Damn good beer.

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Old 10-04-2012, 06:04 PM   #35
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Just adding to the list of good commercial examples - Founder's Dirty Bastard for sure, followed closely by 3 Floyd's Robert the Bruce.

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Old 10-04-2012, 07:12 PM   #36
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Oak and smoke .... no
The peat taste comes from tannins in the water... not from smoke.
Sadly there are very few commercial examples of this overly misunderstood style that are worth drinking.... even in Scotland ... most of the good breweries have been bought out by big corporate scum bags

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Old 10-04-2012, 08:43 PM   #37
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Scottish strains throw off some smoky phenolics but if you're not using a scottish strain and/or you aren't getting enough phenolic character, a tiny amount of smoked malt can get you to where it should be.

I guess I've been fortunate enough to not try a scotch ale overloaded with smoke. It shouldn't be smokey. You should have to work a little to detect the smoke. It shouldn't have a strong feet taste from peat malt nor should it have a bacon flavor from rauchmalt.

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Old 10-04-2012, 08:58 PM   #38
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I'm enjoying the first batch of Scotch Ale I've made...and the first Scotch Ale I've ever tried. I would try to increase the mouthfeel for the next batch and probably mash a little higher, but it's very easy drinkin' beer. Doesn't seem like an acquired taste kind of thing so far.

I used the Scottish Ale yeast from WYEAST and fermented at 53F for 3 weeks followed by 1 week at 35F. I didn't use any smoked or peated malts. I did use some 30L and 20L as well as 0.5lb of aromatic and 0.5lb pale chocolate malt. 14lbs of MO as the base malt. 2oz of EKG at 60min, no other additions. 10 gallon batch.

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Old 10-05-2012, 12:56 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippy View Post
With all due respect, as I am sure Jamil is an EXCELLENT brewer, I would disagree with his assessment that smoked malt is inappropriate in a Scotch Ale.

First of all, the BJCP guidelines specifically mention smoked malt and while the BJCP is certainly not the be-all-end all of brewing "rules," it DOES seem to be the most cited reference when you are dealing with styles concerning homebrew. For this reason, I do not understand how he can say the ingredient is inappropriate.

In addition to this, the character of "smoke" or "peat" in the beer must have originated somewhere. How do we know this character did not start in Scotland? Absence of evidence does not prove a negative. If ANYthing, one could look at historical references from Scotland and probably make a pretty strong case for using heather in the beer more than anything.

With that said, do I feel smoked malt (or even smoke character) is necessary in a Scotch Ale? ...absolutely not... but do I feel we should have one brewer's OPINION of a beer determine what builds a beer style? ...again, no way.

Oh, I just had a couple of Founder's Dirty Bastards last night and LOVED it! I think I'll drink the rest of the 6-pack tonight
So I guessing that contradiction is ok with you? You may want to go back and read your post. Peat malt & or smoked malt is not from smoked malt but from specialty malts, water & brewing process. Its not just Jamil, he maybe more vocal than others but to me smoked malt doesn't belong in Scottish ales of any kind.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:13 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxomophone View Post
Was the scotch ale you tried that oak aged Innis and Gunn? I love Scotch ales but I bought a bottle of that stuff to try because it sounded interesting and had a very hard time finishing it.
The oak added a harsh almost medicinal bitterness to the beer. Try some others that other posters suggested before you write off the style.
I don't remember the name.


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