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Old 04-02-2013, 12:28 PM   #1
Brulosopher
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Default Request: Feedback on First Saison Recipe

I'm making a Saison for a club competition, never made one before. I'm taking the "simple is better" approach with this beer, though I'm open to any suggestions! I've heard 3711 will chew threw anything and doesn't require the warm ferment temps other Saison yeasts do. So my plan is to leave out all sugar/honey additions, using just grain, then pitch at 65F and let it get no warmer than 68F, at least for the first 3 days... main reason for this is I'll be fermenting it next to my Tiny Bottom Pale Ale. So here's what I've come up with:

DETAILS
5.5 Gallons
Est. OG: 1.049
Est. FG: 1.007
Est. ABV: 5.4%
Mash: 150F for 60 min

GRAIN
7.50 lbs Weyermann Pilsner Malt
1.75 lbs White Wheat Malt
1.00 lbs Munich Malt (10L)

HOPS
12 grams Magnum @ 60 (20 IBU)
14 grams Centennial @ 15 (4.4 IBU)
14 grams Nelson Sauvin @ flameout

YEAST
Wyeast 3711 French Saison

I'm stoked to get some feedback!



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Old 04-02-2013, 12:44 PM   #2
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Looks good. I do one that is very similar, in fact I just brewed it on Saturday. 7lb pils, 2 lb wheat, 1lb Munuch. I do add sugar because I like my Saisons very dry. Hopped with Nelson Sauvin. A simple recipe like that is great because you can change up the hops, or even the sugars. I sometimes do white sugar, sometimes turbinado, or even sometimes D-45.

You BU:GU ratio looks good.

Your ferment schedule is fine or you can even just pitch at 65 and let the yeast do what it wants.That is what I usually do with 3711. 3711 is a pretty amazing yeast that is not very temperature sensitive.

I have been on a Saison brewing kick lately getting ready for the summer.



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Old 04-02-2013, 01:12 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beergolf
Looks good. I do one that is very similar, in fact I just brewed it on Saturday. 7lb pils, 2 lb wheat, 1lb Munuch. I do add sugar because I like my Saisons very dry. Hopped with Nelson Sauvin. A simple recipe like that is great because you can change up the hops, or even the sugars. I sometimes do white sugar, sometimes turbinado, or even sometimes D-45.

You BU:GU ratio looks good.

Your ferment schedule is fine or you can even just pitch at 65 and let the yeast do what it wants.That is what I usually do with 3711. 3711 is a pretty amazing yeast that is not very temperature sensitive.

I have been on a Saison brewing kick lately getting ready for the summer.
Awesome, thanks! I figured Centennial would add a nice subtle fruitiness while the Nelson will impart that great aroma. I'm stoked. I'd considered adding a pound of honey or sugar, but don't want the ABV too high.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
don't want the ABV too high.
It probably will be a little higher than the predicted ABV, only because 3711 will usually ferment lower than 1.007. Brew software always underestimates how low 3711 will go. Back when I was doing extract batches I even had several of those finish in the 1.004 range. All grain mashed low always finishes near 1.000 The good thing about 3711 is that even if it goes real low it still has great mouthfeel.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:16 PM   #5
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Subscribed. My first saison is still fermenting with 3724 after three weeks. My recipe is supposed to be a boulevard tank 7 clone and dry hopped with cascade. OG was around 1.070 so a bigger saison and mashed at 156 (meant to hit 152) so a bigger body. If I can't get 3724 down to 10 or so I may finish it off with 3711. I've read the combo of these two work well. 3724 sounds to have the most flavor and be the classic saison but you have to be very patient (like 4-6 weeks in the fermenter) and keep the temps 85+.

I checked mine at two weeks with steady but slow airlock activity and it was at 1.040 so still a long way to go. Smelled fantastic and started tasting good but of course very sweet.

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Old 04-02-2013, 02:54 PM   #6
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Looks good - this is personal preference but I'd go with noble hops if you can. The yeast should shine. I like:

Goldings
Saaz
etc.

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Old 04-02-2013, 03:02 PM   #7
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I'll second the noble hop suggestion, I use hallertau in my saisons, and I like them dry so I would add some sugar and decrease the malt if you are worried about a high abv.

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Old 04-03-2013, 12:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beergolf View Post
It probably will be a little higher than the predicted ABV, only because 3711 will usually ferment lower than 1.007. Brew software always underestimates how low 3711 will go. Back when I was doing extract batches I even had several of those finish in the 1.004 range. All grain mashed low always finishes near 1.000 The good thing about 3711 is that even if it goes real low it still has great mouthfeel.
I'm glad you mentioned this, as I had been wondering just how low 3711 would take it. I'm curious what you (or anyone else) thinks about throwing in 4 to 8 oz of Rye Malt, maybe replacing some Pils? I thought this might add some more subtle character while also contributing to a more full body and mouthfeel. Also, perhaps a mash closer to 156F would be good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoreman View Post
Looks good - this is personal preference but I'd go with noble hops if you can. The yeast should shine. I like:

Goldings
Saaz
etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban View Post
I'll second the noble hop suggestion, I use hallertau in my saisons, and I like them dry so I would add some sugar and decrease the malt if you are worried about a high abv.
My original design was all Goldings and Saaz, but after checking out a few clone recipes for some of my favorite US Saison (Bam Biere, Tank 7), I changed it up. I thought the Centennial would contribute to a more "mouth full of fruit juice" experience, while the NS seems like it would pair well with the Saison yeast. If this is a bad idea, I'm happy going back to my original hop schedule. Also, this isn't the actual comp beer (I just realized)... unless it's so good it should be... rather, I'll be building up a big starter, harvesting a couple pitches of this yeast for a friend and myself, then brewing this beer as more of a trial run with the yeast.

Thanks to you all for the great suggestions!
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:14 PM   #9
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I used 3711 exclusively for my saisons last summer. It will really dry the beer out. It was perfect for the style.

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Old 04-04-2013, 12:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timewasted View Post
I used 3711 exclusively for my saisons last summer. It will really dry the beer out. It was perfect for the style.
Would you recommend, then, a higher mash temp? Say maybe 156-158?


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