The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Beer Discussion > Raw Vegan brewing.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-09-2012, 05:49 PM   #141
TyTanium
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,944
Liked 542 Times on 382 Posts
Likes Given: 415

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACbrewer View Post
...If humanity is facing a food shortage, we'd be better off eating more vegitables rather than feeding that to animals and then eating the animals. The calories in a 100 units of corn that becomes 1 unit of pig is far higher as 100 units of corn instead of 1 unit of pig, no matter how desne meat is for energy, again advantage plant eaters.
That assumes pigs, cows, etc eat corn. The missing equation here is grass. Humans can't eat grass, but cows can. They turn hardy, perennial, abundant, prolific grass into high-quality sustaining food.
__________________
TyTanium is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2012, 05:58 PM   #142
Nightshade
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Richland, WA
Posts: 1,421
Liked 191 Times on 148 Posts
Likes Given: 210

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TyTanium View Post
That assumes pigs, cows, etc eat corn. The missing equation here is grass. Humans can't eat grass, but cows can. They turn hardy, perennial, abundant, prolific grass into high-quality sustaining food.
Corn is actually an unnatural food for pigs and cows to consume but it allows them to grow to sell weight faster than a grass fed diet does and they can put them into industrial style feed lots instead of open range grazing which takes more land.

The trade off though is that a feed lot animal takes more maintenence with antibiotics and hormone treatment than a range fed animal due to conditions and stress on the animal.
__________________
Nightshade is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2012, 06:01 PM   #143
Whattawort
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Whattawort's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: East Bumfark, Yonder
Posts: 912
Liked 98 Times on 84 Posts
Likes Given: 34

Default

Don't forget the bone meal. Cows and pigs are oblivious cannibals. That's good with me though, makes the cows taste beefier and the pigs taste more porcine. Bacony bacon. Wha? Don't judge me!

__________________

Bottled - Swamp Water Mead
Kegged - Ryerish Red
Fermenting - Plinius Maior

“For a quart of Ale is a dish for a king.”
― William Shakespeare

Whattawort is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2012, 06:02 PM   #144
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 60,054
Liked 4202 Times on 3059 Posts
Likes Given: 780

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TyTanium View Post
Doing crossfit on hard-core paleo would be tough. I think most of those guys are "primal" not paleo, meaning they ingest small amounts of tuber-type carbs (i.e., potatoes). Ketones are great, but glucose really helps with the high intensity stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyTanium View Post
Again, that sounds like primal, but the distinction is pretty minimal.

Most modified versions don't last long. If you're still ingesting carbs/glucose, you kinda get stuck in "no man's" land where you're not getting enough glucose to function at 100%, but not yet adapted to burning fat, so you feel sluggish, tired, headachey, terrible. Not pushing you one way or the other, but you really have to commit to it to feel the benefits, whatever they may be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACbrewer View Post
Well I see as problems, 1, sacrofication of the starches, 2, isomerization of the hops and 3. last but more important, sanitation of the wort. I suppose DMS also could be a problem, but I'm not exactly sure how it is formed. Does it require heat to make (say 140F) and then get driven off at a boil?

Anyhow, yes #2 would require a boil to get good bittering out of the hops, although some will come out with a soak at room temp. The isomerization is iirc a change of the AA shape so it is more water soluable. But it might be only 1/10th ro even 1/100th as soluable, hence why I suggested using a different bittering agent.

#1 I don't think can be done without hitting the activation energies of the emzynes which are in the 140 to 160F range (depending on emzyme).

#3, is clearly the most difficult - how to make it all sanitary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyTanium View Post
That assumes pigs, cows, etc eat corn. The missing equation here is grass. Humans can't eat grass, but cows can. They turn hardy, perennial, abundant, prolific grass into high-quality sustaining food.
When I earlier said that I don't use gelatin, because a product from a cow, I didn't mean to imply that I am vegan or vegetarian, as I am not.

I'm more between paleo/primal, and I eat grass fed beef, venison, and lamb along with fish I've got. But I don't want my beer to not be vegetarian friendly, as I would think that my vegetarian friends would not expect to find animal products in my beer!

The thing with me is funny- I'm mostly paleo/primal, except for my beer! I'm NOT giving up my beloved beer. That is the only grain I consume- the grain in my beer. I eat a few potatoes in the fall, but otherwise no rice, wheat, barley, or other starchy foods unless I'm out with friends and then I suck it up and eat whatever they are having.

I do NOT preach my lifestyle, but sometimes I do say something. As an example, I work with a woman a little younger than me. She's extremely obese and always has Twizzlers, chips, and Mountain Dew on her desk. She's always sick, she's always tired, and she's got health issues like bad teeth, high cholesterol, etc. I don't say a word for the most part. But every once in a while, she will make a snide comment to me like, "Must be nice to be so skinny." Finally, one time, all I did was look at her and say, "You just wouldn't want to do what I do". She laughed then, and agreed. She asked me a couple of times what I eat, because it's foreign to her and she just doesn't understand how I am happy with my choices. I've never ever preached to her, even though her young children are also obese. Because she knows this is unhealthy- she's not stupid. But she doesn't want to make changes, and that's the bottom line, so it's easier to point to me as the "weird, skinny person". I don't point to her as anything.

I'm not into "raw", although I do consume many raw or pickled foods just as part of my mostly vegetable diet. But to make a beer raw food friendly would be tough. I think home malting and kilning at a low temperature is far above my abilities, as well as against my inclination. Mead and wine are raw, but I can't really see how to make a great tasting beer this way.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2012, 06:04 PM   #145
TyTanium
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,944
Liked 542 Times on 382 Posts
Likes Given: 415

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightshade View Post
Corn is actually an unnatural food for pigs and cows to consume but it allows them to grow to sell weight faster than a grass fed diet does and they can put them into industrial style feed lots instead of open range grazing which takes more land.

The trade off though is that a feed lot animal takes more maintenence with antibiotics and hormone treatment than a range fed animal due to conditions and stress on the animal.
Exactly my point. I agree that corn-fed meat is not efficient calorically...so let 'em eat grass and it's moot. I'm off topic, sorry. Guess I like thinking about this stuff.
__________________
TyTanium is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2012, 06:17 PM   #146
ACbrewer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 1,520
Liked 88 Times on 81 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TyTanium View Post
That assumes pigs, cows, etc eat corn. The missing equation here is grass. Humans can't eat grass, but cows can. They turn hardy, perennial, abundant, prolific grass into high-quality sustaining food.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightshade View Post
Corn is actually an unnatural food for pigs and cows to consume but it allows them to grow to sell weight faster than a grass fed diet does and they can put them into industrial style feed lots instead of open range grazing which takes more land.

The trade off though is that a feed lot animal takes more maintenence with antibiotics and hormone treatment than a range fed animal due to conditions and stress on the animal.
I was pretty sure as I typed it that would be pointed out - that is that grass feed animals becoming human food is an effiecient use of energy, where as my example was using human food to feed animals being inefficent, and I agree on that. I'm also not concerned about food shortages.
__________________
ACbrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2012, 06:19 PM   #147
TyTanium
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,944
Liked 542 Times on 382 Posts
Likes Given: 415

Default

Oh good, we all agree then

Back to your regular scheduled programming...

__________________
TyTanium is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2012, 06:20 PM   #148
ACbrewer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 1,520
Liked 88 Times on 81 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
I'm not into "raw", although I do consume many raw or pickled foods just as part of my mostly vegetable diet. But to make a beer raw food friendly would be tough. I think home malting and kilning at a low temperature is far above my abilities, as well as against my inclination. Mead and wine are raw, but I can't really see how to make a great tasting beer this way.
This is where I've come to after thinking on this most of the day - raw beer would be tough. How close to beer flavor - I doubt it would be similar, although if it was palatible and alcoholic, it would probably be consumed. And I agree that doing it is beyond my skill also.
__________________
ACbrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2012, 06:41 PM   #149
teresalgl
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: BL, MN
Posts: 93
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default

Maybe a raw sour beer would be the way to go.

__________________
teresalgl is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2012, 06:50 PM   #150
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 21,823
Liked 900 Times on 600 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

By the time you got starch down to maltose at 100F, it would a disgusting soup of everything that is not beer.

__________________
BrewHardware.com
Sightglass, Refractometer, Ball Valve, Weldless bulkhead, Thermometer, Decals, Stainless Steel Fittings, Compression Fittings, Camlock Quick Disconnects, Scale, RIMS tube, Plate Chiller, Chugger Pump, Super Clear Silicone Tubing, and more!

New Stuff?
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
All-Grain Brewing with Extract Brewing Equipment (pics) DRoyLenz General Beer Discussion 76 06-30-2014 04:53 PM
Vegan beer? trigger General Beer Discussion 57 06-02-2011 01:27 PM
hook & ladder brewing co. & Southern Tier brewing starrfish General Beer Discussion 22 12-10-2009 03:46 PM
Basic Brewing Radio - German Brewing History Kaiser General Beer Discussion 8 10-30-2009 01:20 AM
Victory Brewing ~ Downingtown, PA 37 minute brewing tour video SuperiorBrew General Beer Discussion 5 01-23-2008 06:14 PM