Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Winners Re-Re-Re-Re-Drawn - 24 hours to Claim!

Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Beer Discussion > Optimum SG to bottle without adding primer.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-16-2011, 07:26 PM   #1
TripHops
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 92
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default Optimum SG to bottle without adding primer.

Hello fellow brewers and brewdetts...

I have been wondering about something that I would like some advice or info. It is in regards to bottling beer according to SG without a primer.

Most of the time I will ferment beer until the target FSG and add a sugar primer solution before bottling. This usually proves very good and I have not had any blown caps. However, I am wondering if there is some optimum range of low SG where you can bottle the beer to finish in the bottle without risk of blown caps or over effervescence?

Is this what is meant by Secondary Fermentation? What is the optimum SG to do this with? How much time in the bottle (sounds like a song title )?

Thanks for any help you can give?

TripHops...

__________________
TripHops is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-16-2011, 07:31 PM   #2
MalFet
/bɪər nərd/
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
MalFet's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NYC / Kathmandu
Posts: 8,277
Liked 1270 Times on 845 Posts
Likes Given: 584

Default

There is no way to do this safely. FG is determined by a complex of unreliable and unmeasurable factors, so there's no way you can be certain how much fermentable sugar is left accurately.

Secondary fermentation is completely different. It usually involves the addition of fruit or other fermentables late in the process.

__________________
MalFet is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-16-2011, 07:32 PM   #3
JonM
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JonM's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 4,551
Liked 837 Times on 578 Posts
Likes Given: 69

Default

Are you asking if it's possible to catch a beer just before it finishes fermenting and carb with the last bit of unfermented sugar instead of adding priming sugar?

__________________
Who is this Rorschach guy? And why did he paint so many pictures of my parents fighting?
JonM is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-16-2011, 07:38 PM   #4
Qhrumphf
Stay Rude, Stay SHARP
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Qhrumphf's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 7,151
Liked 1691 Times on 1204 Posts
Likes Given: 691

Default

I've always understood secondary fermentation as transferring the beer to a second vessel (ie carboy) after primary fermentation has finished (already at final gravity). This enables the yeast to clean up the byproducts of fermentation, clearing and maturing the beer. Not so much that's it's converting sugars to alcohol. Definitely not finishing fermentation in the bottle.

As for carbonating by letting fermentation finish in the bottle, I'd think that's way too much of a risk to be worth trying. I for one can never exactly tell what my FG will be (even if usually a point or two below target) and have a sense I'd either end up with uncarbonated beer or a bottle bomb if I tried that. Perhaps a brewer with substantially more brews under their belt who can accurately control every single variable and know exactly what kind of attenuation they will get might be able to pull it off, but I still wouldn't try it.

Perhaps a more experienced brewer can chime in

__________________

Up Next: Bluebird Bitter Clone v2.5, Scottish 60/-, Rye American Pale Ale
Primary: Robust Porter, Kitchen Sink Brown Porter, Bluebird Bitter Clone v2.0
Souring: Lamebic, Flanders Red, Brett. C. Old Ale, Sour Stout, Brett C. Wild Bitter, Wild Cider
Polypins: Dark Mild
Bottled: English Cider, Belgian IPA, Spiced Winter Warmer, Malt Liquor
In the "cellar": Brett B. Tripel, Quadrupel, Tripel, Brett C. Oaked English Barleywine, Lamebic

Qhrumphf is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-16-2011, 07:54 PM   #5
TripHops
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 92
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

For JonM - answer is yes, with low or no risk of bombs.

TripHops

__________________
TripHops is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-16-2011, 08:04 PM   #6
JonM
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JonM's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 4,551
Liked 837 Times on 578 Posts
Likes Given: 69

Default

It's innovative thinking, but go with what the other guys have said. You really can't do this safely. We add measured amounts of priming sugar so we can control the amount of pressure in the bottles. If you just use unfermented sugar, it's a total crapshoot as to how much gas and pressure you'll get.

__________________
Who is this Rorschach guy? And why did he paint so many pictures of my parents fighting?
JonM is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-16-2011, 08:14 PM   #7
ThickHead
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,010
Liked 45 Times on 30 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TripHops View Post
Hello fellow brewers and brewdetts...

I have been wondering about something that I would like some advice or info. It is in regards to bottling beer according to SG without a primer.

Most of the time I will ferment beer until the target FSG and add a sugar primer solution before bottling. This usually proves very good and I have not had any blown caps. However, I am wondering if there is some optimum range of low SG where you can bottle the beer to finish in the bottle without risk of blown caps or over effervescence?

Is this what is meant by Secondary Fermentation? What is the optimum SG to do this with? How much time in the bottle (sounds like a song title )?

Thanks for any help you can give?

TripHops...
You could call bottle conditioning secondary fermentation. However, many times secondary fermentation is referring to late fermentables additions in some higher ABV beers (where often times new strains of yeast are also added). Just of curiosity...why would you want to bottle condition using such a method? I am sure it could be done but I can think of several reasons why I would not consider it. A couple just off the top of my head would be: 1) There would be so much particulate (trub) matter still suspended in the fermenting wort that you would get a ton of sediment in your bottles. And 2) Would be that it would be near impossible to figure proper CO2 volumes.
__________________
ThickHead is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-16-2011, 08:27 PM   #8
ChillWill
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire
Posts: 856
Liked 15 Times on 15 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

A brewery I've done some work experience cask conditions like this:
1. Ferment beer for usually 3 days
2. Top crop yeast and transfer to conditioning tank and leave over night
3. Fill casks adding finings but no primimg sugar.

They take regular gravity readings and plot on a chart to see it level out. I think they said there is usually about a point or two of gravity left which gives 1.5vol co2. They've had this yeast for like 20 years though so imagine it's pretty consistent.

__________________
ChillWill is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-16-2011, 09:22 PM   #9
TripHops
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 92
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Thanks for chiming in ya’ll and providing such good information. I agree with attempting to guess the amount of fermentable sugar left in the beer before bottling is virtually impossible without the proper equipment and chemistry background.

Anyway, it was a good thought and I am sure there are formulas, equipment and knowledge out there that this can be accomplished. Unfortunately I don’t have either and I ain’t going to UC Davis at my age for that degree. Besides I will never get my money or time back and it is much cheaper simply to be a little more patient and prime :-0

However, ChillWill did spark another thought. Using kegs to complete the fermentation process and measuring the amount of CO2 pressure could work. Information about the amount of CO2 in bottles is available. I would suspect that you could rack to keg and pressurize to seal the keg and remove O2 then reduce pressure to allow fermentation to complete. Using your CO2 gauges, you could measure the CO2 along the way.

Bottling the carbonated beer could be accomplished without fear of bottle bombs and the amount of carbonation in the bottle could be maintained. OR simply consume from the keg.

Any thoughts on this one guys?

TripHops

__________________
TripHops is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-16-2011, 10:20 PM   #10
malkore
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
malkore's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 6,922
Liked 33 Times on 31 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Yes I have a thought...WHY?!

What is the actual goal here besides "can it be done?"???

If you're trying to avoid priming sugar, either keg it and force carb, then bottle, or look into krausening, which is using wort to prime instead of sugar.

__________________
Malkore
Primary: English Mild
On tap: Pale Ale, Lancelot's Wheat, English Brown Ale, Steam Beer, HoovNuts IPA
Bottled: MOAM, Braggot, Raspberry Melomel, Merlot, Apfelwein, Pyment, Sweet mead, Cabernet
Gal in 2009: 27, Gal in 2010: 34, Gal in 2011: 13, Gal in 2012: 10
malkore is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
6 oz beer + 12 oz bottle = bottle bomb? Butcher General Beer Discussion 1 03-17-2011 03:55 AM
How to Get - and Keep - Your Hops' Optimum Value Gear101 General Beer Discussion 3 11-26-2010 01:38 AM
Bottle in the Miller Lite 16oz Al bottle/can things beesy General Beer Discussion 5 03-30-2009 09:18 PM
Brown Sugar Primer McCuckerson General Beer Discussion 2 12-11-2008 04:40 AM
DME primer McCuckerson General Beer Discussion 7 12-01-2008 10:11 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS