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Old 10-27-2013, 11:20 PM   #1
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Default Only flame out addition

I have heard that a lot of commercial breweries only do a bittering addition at the beginning of the boil and than a flame out/whirlpool addition for a certain amount of time. Specifically I have seen it stated in many places that Stone only does an addition at 90mins and then a huge whirlpool addition. Clearly they get a huge amount of flavor and aroma with this method. The other day I came across this:
http://www.bear-flavored.com/2013/07/the-benefits-of-hop-stand-whirlpool.html
Basically the write up argues that boiling your flavor and aroma additions will waste some of the flavor and aroma you would get due to the acids being boiled off and isomerized in the boil and the best way to get as much flavor and aroma from your hops is the do a long hop stand at high but not boiling temperatures.
What is the validity of this idea?

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Old 10-27-2013, 11:26 PM   #2
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Try looking into hop-bursting as well. I haven't tried it yet since it's supposed to require a lot of hops added at the end to be effective, but it is supposed to be very good at imparting those super-fresh hop aromas that Stone achieves so often.

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Old 10-27-2013, 11:58 PM   #3
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You should check out the latest addition of Zymurgy. It has an article specifically about this technique.

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Old 10-28-2013, 12:12 AM   #4
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Thats a good question I sure someone knows. Personally I have been playing with doing no 60 min or flavor hops and instead using first wort for flavor and bittering then doing a flame out addition. So far it has turned out great.

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Old 10-28-2013, 12:27 AM   #5
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Try looking into hop-bursting as well. I haven't tried it yet since it's supposed to require a lot of hops added at the end to be effective, but it is supposed to be very good at imparting those super-fresh hop aromas that Stone achieves so often.
I have hop bursted a few times before and have been very pleased with the results. The idea behind this is getting most of your ibus from the additions in the last 10 to 15 minutes. The idea with only doing a addition at the beginning and end of the boil, as i understand it, is to get your ibu's were you want them to be from that first bittering addition then *only flavor and aroma from the flame out addition and getting negligible ibus from them due to not boiling.

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You should check out the latest addition of Zymurgy. It has an article specifically about this technique.
Definitely need to! Any place online I can read it, or at least that one article for free?


I guess my real question is: what is the difference between adding all of your flavor/aroma hops right as you cut off the flame or boiling them for those last 10 minutes or so, other then the obvious ibu's you would get from boiling them?
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:28 AM   #6
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Basically the idea is that you have one bitter addition to achieve the IBU levels you want and then concentrate all the flavor and aroma at the end of the boil, 15 minutes to flame out in large amounts

The longer the hops boil the more of the flavor and aroma compound break down and are essentially rendered useless or less than what you want. Some flavor/aroma hops don't even provide a good pleasant bitter addition

The book "Hops" is a great resource for your brewing library

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Old 10-28-2013, 12:47 AM   #7
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Basically the idea is that you have one bitter addition to achieve the IBU levels you want and then concentrate all the flavor and aroma at the end of the boil, 15 minutes to flame out in large amounts

The longer the hops boil the more of the flavor and aroma compound break down and are essentially rendered useless or less than what you want. Some flavor/aroma hops don't even provide a good pleasant bitter addition

The book "Hops" is a great resource for your brewing library
Right. I have done hop bursting before and loved it. I'm just trying to understand the difference between hop bursting and adding all of your late additions at flameout. If the longer the hops are boiled, the more flavor/aroma compounds are lost, why not add all the late additions after the boil for a long, hot hopstand?
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:54 AM   #8
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Right. I have done hop bursting before and loved it. I'm just trying to understand the difference between hop bursting and adding all of your late additions at flameout. If the longer the hops are boiled, the more flavor/aroma compounds are lost, why not add all the late additions after the boil for a long, hot hopstand?
Flavor compounds mostly come out around the 20-30 minute mark of the boil. I don't know how much you'd get by adding everything at flameout.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:00 AM   #9
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Flavor compounds mostly come out around the 20-30 minute mark of the boil. I don't know how much you'd get by adding everything at flameout.
Okay. So there is validity to the labels "flavor addition" and "aroma addition". A 10 min boil will give you more aroma then flavor whereas a 20 min boil will give you more flavor then aroma?
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:10 AM   #10
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Okay. So there is validity to the labels "flavor addition" and "aroma addition". A 10 min boil will give you more aroma then flavor whereas a 20 min boil will give you more flavor then aroma?
That's my understanding of it, hence why you don't get flavor out of dry-hopping additions.
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