The not so great debate about steeping grains

Question

Are these fermentable according to Palmer yes. I am not so sure. Are these just for color? I dont care so much about either what I want to know is how many and how much is needed to provide a specific flavor. Otherwise I wont waste my money. I like malty beers like really strong dopplebock and something like guiness extra stout.

You get flavor and color out of specialty grains. I'd venture a guess and say if you brewed a doppelbock or stout without specialty grains, you would be very disappointed with the results.

Yes you get flavor and color from steeping grains, but not always fermentable sugar.

If you are using carmel/crystal malts, you will get some fermentable sugars as they are created during the process of creating the crystal malt.

To get fermentable sugar from many of the specialty grains out there you need a certain percentage of grain with enzymatic potential. These are your base grains like 2 row, 6 row, pilsner, pale malt, or vienna. The enzymes in these grains help convert the sugars in many of the other malts that are kilned. The addition of grains with enzymatic potential enables you to mash your grain. It is the process used in partial mash or all grain brewing. Those grains should be held at a specific temperature for a specific amount of time to get a proper conversion of sugars. Water chemistry also becomes important if you venture into this area of brewing.

You get fermentable sugars out of steeping grains. It's not a significant amount, as you generally use 20% or much less of your batch as specialty grains, but you do get fermentable sugars from them as well as color and flavor.

As an example, a typical dopplebock recipe would be something like:

14 pounds LME (preferably some Munich LME)
2 pounds caramunich or other German crystal malt

You get flavor and color from the crystal malt, but the bulk of the fermentables come from the extract.

The same is true of all-grain batches, as well. The bulk of the fermentables always come from the base grain.

I'm watching this thread for the following reason:
Last weekend, I wanted to brew an 11G batch of EdWort's Robust Porter. If you double the grain bill* and try to add 1.25 quarts of water per pound, it won't all fit in a 10G water cooler mash tun.

However, if we had steeped the Chocolate Malt, Crystal 40, Black Patent and Roasted Barley in the first runnings, we could have mashed the rest of the grain bill at 1.25 q/lb with a gallon to spare in the mash tun.

We didn't do that, though. Instead, we reduced the base grain by three pounds, sacrificing OG.

* I know that doubling a recipe in beersmith while maintaining original gravity, bitterness and color does not result in a doubling of the grain bill.

MikeInMKE said:

I'm watching this thread for the following reason:
Last weekend, I wanted to brew an 11G batch of EdWort's Robust Porter. If you double the grain bill* and try to add 1.25 quarts of water per pound, it won't all fit in a 10G water cooler mash tun.

However, if we had steeped the Chocolate Malt, Crystal 40, Black Patent and Roasted Barley in the first runnings, we could have mashed the rest of the grain bill at 1.25 q/lb with a gallon to spare in the mash tun.

We didn't do that, though. Instead, we reduced the base grain by three pounds, sacrificing OG.

* I know that doubling a recipe in beersmith while maintaining original gravity, bitterness and color does not result in a doubling of the grain bill.

Click to expand...

You don't want to steep in the first runnings- but you can steep them all separately in water while you're mashing the rest of the grain.

Oh man.

Can most grains be used for flavor? The last attempt i made a bock that im drinking now its good but needs a little more. I did two 4 lb cans muntons bock which gives you ale yeast and steeped 8 oz 60 L crystal in a 5 gal batch with 2 packs of safale 05. For my next one I got the same lme but got different grains victory 8oz and munich dark 8oz. Im goin to make it on the weekend. I want to just put 3 cans in but that stuff is expensive. Oh and I changed the yeast to S04. I cant lager yet.

8 oz of victory will give you a pretty apparent nutty flavor. Might be what you are after.

S-04 is an english ale yeast that throws quite a few esters if fermented med or warm. It might be okay for a lager if you are fermenting right on the very bottom end of its range. I would save the S-04 for a brown and go back to S-05 or use notty for a pseudo lager.