North Country Malt Group to stop selling to homebrewers

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babalu87

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Thread on Beer Advocate

http://beeradvocate.com/forum/read/2970833

We recently acquired Brewcraft and intend to open up other distribution points in the near future.

However, we appreciate the continued business our loyal homebrew customers have given us. With that being said we intend to continue to make our current product line available to our current home brew accounts but we will not be accepting new home brew customers. Homebrew customers who have done business with North Country Malt Supply and Mid Country Malt Supply over the past 12 months can place orders by calling our toll free number (NC: 888-368-5571 - MC: 866-428-1438) or by e-mailing: [email protected].

Thank you for your continued support.

Kelly J. Kuehl - Director of Sales
The Country Malt Group
 
I know they have to sort and stack different malts based on orders. The last one we did was quite an assortment. It's probably much easier for them to load full pallets of one kind and ship that way. Regardless, that's sad news....they were great to work with.
 
Keeping track of all the tax percentages at the POS, doing the paperwork, and paying the tax for it is a real PITA. That alone is worth not selling to the public.
 
Wow. I wonder what the logic is........a pallet of malt is a pallet of malt. Guess they just want to be a wholesaler.

They bought a homebrew supply company (brewcraft?) and it makes sense for them to change their distribution model.

They have said they will continue to sell to individuals who have purchased from them in the last 12 months.
 
The logic is that "retail" brew suppliers probably are screaming at them to stop as it kills the profit margins.

In a previous life my main supplier sold equipment and supplies to me at the same time as they were operating a business that directly competed with me. I spent years screaming at them but they were so big they did not care. Eventually they closed down all the competing locations as someone bigger than me must have pressured them.
 
It's still not clear to me if they are discontinuing their previous single-customer homebrew supply business (e.g. a single sack of malt shipped by UPS) or if it also includes pallet orders. Frankly, the only distinction would be whether they will sell a pallet of malt to a business vs. end user and even that is hard to differentiate. Just about everyone knows someone with a business tax ID.

Frankly, I don't think they will stop selling full pallets of malt to whomever wants to pay for it.
 
It's still not clear to me if they are discontinuing their previous single-customer homebrew supply business (e.g. a single sack of malt shipped by UPS) or if it also includes pallet orders. Frankly, the only distinction would be whether they will sell a pallet of malt to a business vs. end user and even that is hard to differentiate. Just about everyone knows someone with a business tax ID.

Frankly, I don't think they will stop selling full pallets of malt to whomever wants to pay for it.

This is my hope as well Bobby but just the fact that they arent accepting "new homebrew customers" is what took me aback.

I guess a few of us that get grain in bulk will have to get ourselves a company name and tax#
 
Is it really cost effective to buy one sack at a time? My LHBS sells them for $60-65, and so ordering a small amount is about a break even proposition for me. The only time it made sense was when a group of us went in on a pallet.
 
Frankly, I don't think they will stop selling full pallets of malt to whomever wants to pay for it.

Most homebrew supply distributors will not sell to anyone other than legit homebrew shops. On top of that they only accept new accounts for shops that meet fairly strict guidelines. The logic is that they only want to sell to shops because selling to the individual kills the profit for the homebrew shops and if the homebrew shops go out of business there goes their customers as they can't rely on homebrew clubs for consistent business.

It just seems that they are adopting the approach that the other distributors have. If you called Crosby & Baker or LD Carlson and asked about ordering a pallet for a homebrew club they would quickly say "no."
 
I have to admit I was pretty surprised when I first heard that these guys would do individual sales in the first place. It's really an exception to normal retailing. Most manufacturers in any type of business prefer not to sell direct to consumer. The one's who do usually sell at a higher price than they sell to wholesalers. They usually set an MSRP for the product and sell it for that price only direct to consumers, which allows their wholesale customers to adjust their retail pricing to be competitive. Retailers get a little upset when they are being undercut by the manufacturer.
 
Is it really cost effective to buy one sack at a time? My LHBS sells them for $60-65, and so ordering a small amount is about a break even proposition for me. The only time it made sense was when a group of us went in on a pallet.

Lol, it's VERY cost effective to buy straight from them. I get a 55# sack of two row for $32. That's half the LHBS cost... $0.58 a pound. Including gas to get there in my gas guzzling Mustang it's still $0.69 a pound...
 
i'm just happy i made my first purchase with them about 6 months ago. shame they have to cut out new homebrew customers, but they really aren't set up well for that type of retail market.
 
Is it really cost effective to buy one sack at a time? My LHBS sells them for $60-65, and so ordering a small amount is about a break even proposition for me. The only time it made sense was when a group of us went in on a pallet.
Last single sack I got (just got it) was Franco-Belges Pils malt for $57 delivered to my front door. No tax, no driving, just pull it inside my door.

I was about to order another sack today. We'll see what happens. Maybe I should get two.

EDIT: And I was recently thinking the new NC depot might reduce my shipping and was all excited about that. Woopsie.
 
The key question here is...where is the grain list for us to look at now? So that we know prices and what else they have?

This is obviously for those of us that have bought within 12 months.
 
This is definitely bad news for extract brewers like myself. DME is double the price anywhere else. Hopefully I can still continue to order even if its only a bag or two at a time. I have no idea what I'll do if I can't. Drink and brew less?
 
yeah this would be crushing.... hopefully since i order regularly Ill still be allowed to order. Also I wonder what it would take to be considered a legit store...
 
yeah this would be crushing.... hopefully since i order regularly Ill still be allowed to order. Also I wonder what it would take to be considered a legit store...

Probably a distribution deal that would include buying a heck of a lot of brewcraft stuff.
 
The arguement about the competition for bulk grain purchases shutting down local supply stores irritates me. If the supply stores want to stay in business, maybe they shouldn't charge $60 for a fricken bag of 2row. That's gouging us consumers if you ask me and is probably why bulk grain buys exist in the first place. At $60 a bag what's the mark up profit to the retail store? 100% or more? That's ridiculous.

I understand marking up smaller quantities though. Besides, what percentage of a LHBS's business is from bags of grain anyways. I'll bet it's low.
 
Well here in South Jersey we usually do a pallet (42 bags) buy on average once every 5-7 weeks. It dont take our group long to get 2,000#'s of grain ordered.

I hope they will continue to let us do the pallet buys.
 
Well here in South Jersey we usually do a pallet (42 bags) buy on average once every 5-7 weeks. It dont take our group long to get 2,000#'s of grain ordered.

I hope they will continue to let us do the pallet buys.

ive emailed with Trish, she said were fine... so im sure you are too.
 
It's still not clear to me if they are discontinuing their previous single-customer homebrew supply business (e.g. a single sack of malt shipped by UPS) or if it also includes pallet orders. Frankly, the only distinction would be whether they will sell a pallet of malt to a business vs. end user and even that is hard to differentiate. Just about everyone knows someone with a business tax ID.

Frankly, I don't think they will stop selling full pallets of malt to whomever wants to pay for it.

I think what they are doing is getting rid of the single sack homebrewer orders. They are so busy and have no time or room for handling the single sack orders. Their pallets are flying out of there, and they are having problems keeping up with the volume. The guy is looking for a bigger location. They have already added a couple more workers.

I don't think pallet orders will be effected.
Edit:
I don't think walk-in customers will have any problems either. Just the UPS shipped hombrewer orders
 
I think what they are doing is getting rid of the single sack homebrewer orders. They are so busy and have no time or room for handling the single sack orders. Their pallets are flying out of there, and they are having problems keeping up with the volume. The guy is looking for a bigger location. They have already added a couple more workers.

I don't think pallet orders will be effected.
Edit:
I don't think walk-in customers will have any problems either. Just the UPS shipped hombrewer orders
I hope the walk-in customers won't have problems. I was just planning a trip down to the Chicago area. Never bought from them before but have plenty of others I know who have.
 
I hope the walk-in customers won't have problems. I was just planning a trip down to the Chicago area. Never bought from them before but have plenty of others I know who have.

Sorry to inform you, but even before this new issue came up they require you to call ahead of time to place your order. They won't give you anything if you just show up at their door and ask to buy grain. Highly suggest you call before going there...
 
The key question here is...where is the grain list for us to look at now? So that we know prices and what else they have?

This is obviously for those of us that have bought within 12 months.

Yeah all the link to the price lists on there webpages are no longer any good.
But i was able to find it on there webserver with wild cards in the url.
http://www.countrymaltgroup.com/downloads/NC%20Malt%20Supply%202010%20Sales%20Book%2008-04-10.pdf

*edit* for mid county change the N to an M
http://www.countrymaltgroup.com/downloads/mC Malt Supply 2010 Sales Book 08-04-10.pdf


i would attach a copy but the size restriction are crazy small and the pdf is 2.4mg..


I have only placed large pallet orders (2-3) and I dont see that channle closing,, I think they just want to shuck the 1 and 2 baggers that call and email bugging the piss out of them ,, they prolly dont make but 3 bucks a bag and the clerical labor is nearly the same on a large order VS one bag and then if they call gipping about there tracking number they have lost money on the deal.
 
The arguement about the competition for bulk grain purchases shutting down local supply stores irritates me. If the supply stores want to stay in business, maybe they shouldn't charge $60 for a fricken bag of 2row. That's gouging us consumers if you ask me and is probably why bulk grain buys exist in the first place. At $60 a bag what's the mark up profit to the retail store? 100% or more? That's ridiculous.

I understand marking up smaller quantities though. Besides, what percentage of a LHBS's business is from bags of grain anyways. I'll bet it's low.

No homebrew store can compete when you can purchase it for less than a homebrew store can. No one is gettting rich running a homebrew store. Then the customers don't want to pay for milling the grain. It costs about 25cents per pound to mill the grain. I am sure that you can buy a bag of 2 row for a lot less than $60.

Forrest
 
No homebrew store can compete when you can purchase it for less than a homebrew store can. No one is gettting rich running a homebrew store. Then the customers don't want to pay for milling the grain. It costs about 25cents per pound to mill the grain. I am sure that you can buy a bag of 2 row for a lot less than $60.

Forrest
how can the homebrew stores not buy it for the same price , you can buy from them too and get even better priceing they limet home brewers to the first tir discount, shops get the 2k and up discounts

when i placed an order from Mid CM it was 95$ shipping per pallet, each pallet is up to 42 bags, so thats $2.26 per bag shipped to your door

home brewstore could easly buy 42 bag of 2row @ 25.36 a bag + 2.26 shipping for 27.62 to your door, if you sold these even for 40 you would make 12.38 per bag thats like 40% markup and yet at my lhbs there cheepest bag of 2row is 55buck.!. mabey they could sale more and warrent the bulk order if they were saleing it for 38~40 and only makeing 33% on it.
 
I would probably stop organizing bulk pallet buys if my LHBS would live with a $10 profit per sack. Even then I'm dumping $8 or so of gas money when the pallets just come right to me.
 
how can the homebrew stores not buy it for the same price , you can buy from them too and get even better priceing they limet home brewers to the first tir discount, shops get the 2k and up discounts

when i placed an order from Mid CM it was 95$ shipping per pallet, each pallet is up to 42 bags, so thats $2.26 per bag shipped to your door

home brewstore could easly buy 42 bag of 2row @ 25.36 a bag + 2.26 shipping for 27.62 to your door, if you sold these even for 40 you would make 12.38 per bag thats like 40% markup and yet at my lhbs there cheepest bag of 2row is 55buck.!. mabey they could sale more and warrent the bulk order if they were saleing it for 38~40 and only makeing 33% on it.

First off, customers really don't want the Canadian 2-row. I tried carrying it and I received complaints from customers and employees.

Country malt group sell the grain to you at virtually the same price as they do to me. I costs me 25 cents per pound to mill the grain. You don't charge yourself that. 25 cents per minute for the whole transaction. You don't charge yourself that.

I will use your example, so the bag costs me $25.36 + 2.26 shipping + $1.25 to recieve it + (if it takes 20 minutes from when you walk in to when you leave because you want the 50lb milled) + $5.00 = Now my cost is $33.87 and I sell it in store for $39.99 to cover the rent and utilites and advertising. The rent is 35 cents a minute of course that is divided among several customers that minute.

The 25 cents per minute covers the employees wage, comission, 401k matching, paid vacation, my half of the federal income tax, FICA, and medicaid. It doesn't include any profit.

I am not complaining. It is frustrating when people don't realize all of the costs involved and they think a store is gouging.

Forrest
 
$40 is reasonable for a bag of 2-row but $60 isn't. I think thats where the beef lies.
 
if you say so , on avage hafe our bulk buys are canada 2row , why is mid county saleing 1000s of tons of it, if noone wants it? are you saleing 1000s of tons of grain?
who buys a 55lbs sack of pre milled grain ? dont do it, a whole bag is just that a whole unopened bag,
if you have to open the bag to dump it out and mill it and them put it back in the bag, it should go to the ala carte priceing,
or add a bulk milling fee for a whole bag, mid county does.

all that other suff is operating cost and are not added to the wholesale price before markup in "most" retail shops including the one i own.
do you make 100% mark up on other items, like your pumps yeast or hops? I dought it so why the back lash for the same deal on whole unopened sacks of grain?

i am just looking to save some money in this economy ,to me if you buy a 42 bag pallet of CAN 2row, move the whole palet off the truck with a lift or palet jack off to the corner and then just sale whole unopend bags for around $40 i dont see how you cant make some money, ruffly 42*12=540 per pallet and make some cheepasses happy to boot
 
if you say so , on avage hafe our bulk buys are canada 2row , why is mid county saleing 1000s of tons of it, if noone wants it? are you saleing 1000s of tons of grain?
who buys a 55lbs sack of pre milled grain ? dont do it, a whole bag is just that a whole unopened bag,
if you have to open the bag to dump it out and mill it and them put it back in the bag, it should go to the ala carte priceing,
or add a bulk milling fee for a whole bag, mid county does.

all that other suff is operating cost and are not added to the wholesale price before markup in "most" retail shops including the one i own.
do you make 100% mark up on other items, like your pumps yeast or hops? I dought it so why the back lash for the same deal on whole unopened sacks of grain?

i am just looking to save some money in this economy ,to me if you buy a 42 bag pallet of CAN 2row, move the whole palet off the truck with a lift or palet jack off to the corner and then just sale whole unopend bags for around $40 i dont see how you cant make some money, ruffly 42*12=540 per pallet and make some cheepasses happy to boot


I agree with some of the points you made, even if I had to read it 5 times to decipher it haha.

What about extract? They could get me extract for $2.38/# which is about 15% less than ANY other vendor.
 
curious how do you figure 25cents a pound to crush grain? how much extra time does it take an employee to pick out, weigh, bag,etc. an recipe of non-milled verus milled? from a youtube video ive seen of your machine/setup, seems like it adds less than a minute to crush the grains after weighing and everything
 
It costs me 25 cents a minute for an employee to help a customer. (just to pay for the employee)

Before this gets crazy, my point is that people that say stores are gouging rarely are. There are some stores that do. $60 for a bag of 2-row is a bit much.

People see the cost and they do not realize all of the costs involved in selling some grain to them.

Forrest

The prices you were getting from Country malt group whether it was grain or extract were the same as homebrew stores received. If an employee looked in the general direction of the grain, it cost me more than it cost you.
 
$15 an hour?

not to get to off topic, but arent there places available cheaper than NCM available to homebrew stores. ithink what i a lot people were getting at is the huge price difference between NCM and other stores
 
What none of you seem to understand is what it costs to run a brick and mortar store.
You all want to pay the price the NCM charges, but their profit is already built into that. These are the same costs that Forrest and everyone else has to deal with.
If you ran a business you would understand. You don't know what a company pays for their product so you don't know whether they are living with a 25% or a 100% markup. It costs money to pay a guy to get his balls busted because somebody is selling something online for a $.01 cheaper.
None of the bulk orders listed in this thread appear as the tiniest bump in what NCM produces and distributes. They don't want to send one bag to some dude trying to save $3 on his batch of beer. It is WAY more important that they protect their real customers and in doing so not waste a warehouse guys's time.
I know some people aren't lucky enough to live anywhere near an LHBS store let alone one whose prices match or beat online, but it is nice to throw the local guy some cash once in a while.
 

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