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Old 08-23-2012, 07:36 PM   #21
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I think you've got a point here. It's not that they didn't help him out, it's how they responded. The language used and rigid line they took was kind of uncalled for and came off as very unfriendly. In a "guarding govt secrets" kinda way. They could have easily said "Hey guy, we appreciate your inquiry and glad you enjoy the beer, however our recipes are a very important secret to us", and perhaps given some sort of related advice, even if it wasn't super helpful.

Instead, they chose a canned response and took a hard stance on it and end up looking like dicks.
I can how this comes across that way, but honestly, I think they just have someone answering emails and with so much interest in them lately the higher ups just put in a form response to this kind of inquiry because they are too busy with their jobs and don't trust a clerk to not give away too much.

Or, they were homebrewers one time and DIDN'T have access to a pro brewer for advice and had to learn the hard way, and that's how they figure everyone else should do it too.

Who knows. I'd still chat up the help and see what gives. At least find out what kind of crack they put in KBS to make it so damn delicious!
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:39 PM   #22
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I can how this comes across that way, but honestly, I think they just have someone answering emails and with so much interest in them lately the higher ups just put in a form response to this kind of inquiry because they are too busy with their jobs and don't trust a clerk to not give away too much.

Or, they were homebrewers one time and DIDN'T have access to a pro brewer for advice and had to learn the hard way, and that's how they figure everyone else should do it too.

Who knows. I'd still chat up the help and see what gives. At least find out what kind of crack they put in KBS to make it so damn delicious!
Yep, my perception of them hasn't changed a bit. I'm making a Breakfast Stout clone in a month or so. Can't wait.
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:46 PM   #23
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Yep, my perception of them hasn't changed a bit. I'm making a Breakfast Stout clone in a month or so. Can't wait.
I brewed one last november...man is it good with age! Good luck! On that note, didn't Founders help BYO with the Breakfast Stout clone in their Jan 2009 edition? Weird they would do that but not answer my Cashew question...
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:55 PM   #24
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Just curious, can anyone think of a beer that is or seems like a direct clone of a previously successful beer? I think the point of making a unique beer is that it's hard to duplicate even if you know the recipe. You don't have their water, they probably don't include their PH information, their process info, their equipment profile, etc. There are all kinds of things that can change the makeup of the beer and unless you brew it where they brew it...chances are you won't perfectly duplicate it.

Think of all of the pale ales out there...you think there's really some super-secret ingredient in every one of them? Or that they do something that NOBODY else does that is easy to duplicate if the secret were out? I doubt it. It's their environment, equipment, water, etc. I can see a specific yeast strain, too...but that's not going to be duplicated from a simple email.

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Old 08-23-2012, 08:00 PM   #25
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Just curious, can anyone think of a beer that is or seems like a direct clone of a previously successful beer?
Kuhnhenn's gold medal winning DRIPA tastes suspiciously like Pliny.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:02 PM   #26
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Any sort of nuts, cashews, pecans, etc......typically get put in the mash. And they're roasted anywhere from 1-4 times before mashed.

I made pecan brown porter and roasted them 4x over and crushed them up into small pieces before mixing evenly through the mash. It's also important to note that any time you use nuts, if they're the oily type after roasting, then they need to be put in a brown lunch sack so you can soak up as much of the oils as possible. Oily beer = no head
I used 2 pounds of store bought dry roasted peanuts in a 1 gallon batch where I didn't remove any oil at all.

No head retention problems.

I'm about ready to call the "oily ingredient = poor head retention" theory a myth.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:08 PM   #27
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I used 2 pounds of store bought dry roasted peanuts in a 1 gallon batch where I didn't remove any oil at all.

No head retention problems.

I'm about ready to call the "oily ingredient = poor head retention" theory a myth.
Interesting. Yeah, we all just follow what we're told. I only assumed that oil kills head retention, as I understood it. Regardless, I'd still probably try to reduce the amt of oils by a good bit.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:03 PM   #28
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Or, they were homebrewers one time and DIDN'T have access to a pro brewer for advice and had to learn the hard way, and that's how they figure everyone else should do it too.
I had thought about this. They might be in the "You have bootstraps, use them!" camp. Even if they are, it doesn't change my opinion - Yeah it was their place to give that canned response - and - Yeah that was overreacting to their "tone".

Meh well. That's the great thing about having a zillion different craft breweries, these-a-days. Plenty of other beers to clone, brewers to talk to, etc.

I almost feel overwhelmed with the beer selection these-a-days. Might be an example of "Careful what you wish for!".


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On that note, didn't Founders help BYO with the Breakfast Stout clone in their Jan 2009 edition? Weird they would do that but not answer my Cashew question...
Because some recipes are simple enough that there IS no secret, nothing to hide - and I would assume the Stout might fall in that category - after all, it's likely, hmmm, some pale malt, 2-6% Roasted Barley, perhaps flaked barley, and maybe another specialty grain if they're gettin' all crazy about it. And the 'secret' to the hops is probably just 'use neutral ones, and not too much of them'. (I am taking the assumption it's not a Milk Stout or other 'specialty' stout that would cause it to have a more porter-like grainbill.)

Meanwhile a Brown - especially a nut brown using real nuts - is far into the realms of having "secrets". After all, a Brown ale cuts a wide swath.

I actually wouldn't mind a copy of the recipe for the new Sam Adams Hazel Brown. Do I think they're gonna give me it? Not until the off-season, perhaps, once the Fall Variety Packs are sold out. :P
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Old 08-24-2012, 06:02 AM   #29
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I actually wouldn't mind a copy of the recipe for the new Sam Adams Hazel Brown. Do I think they're gonna give me it? Not until the off-season, perhaps, once the Fall Variety Packs are sold out. :P
Don't forget though, I didn't ask for the recipe...All I asked was where in the process they add the cashews...nothing more.
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:03 AM   #30
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I don't blame them for protecting the Cashew Brown secrets. That stuff is amazing.

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