HBT 2014 Big Giveaway - 4/10 Re-Draw Winners Posted!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Beer Discussion > Lager brew results/questions




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-23-2010, 02:23 AM   #1
Dougan
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Stevens Point, WI
Posts: 454
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default Lager brew results/questions

So, I brewed my first lager.

Octoberfest. Something generic i got off of the web, just to get a simple recipe (all-grain). I have some flavors I would like to get looked at.

OG 1.053, 4.25 gallons.
Chest Freezer with a temp controller
day 1: Pitched starter of wyeast Munich Lager (2308) at high kreusen. Set temp controller at 55. Fermentation started pretty quickly. Over the next 48 hours, brought down to 50 degrees.

Gravity @ 5 days: 1.036
Gravity @ 11 days: 1.020

diacetyl rest:
12th: raised to 55
13th: raised to 58
15th: dropped to 45

(5 days out of town at 45)

20th day: Racked to corny keg and put in fridge at around 36 degrees. FG 1.012

Tried it 7 weeks after the original brew day (so about 4 weeks of lagering at 36 degrees). A little earlier than its prime, probably, but after 4 weeks of lagering it should be pretty much settled down... right?

The bitterness and final gravity were off but those are explainable by my recipe. However, it tasted really yeasty. Like the same sort of fruity esters you get when you ferment an ale too warm with 1056 yeast. What do you think I did to make this happen? My yeast was pretty healthy when pitched and I followed the yeast profile temperaturewise. I think I did the diacetyl rest at the right time. I don't know if I can identify diacetyl but I don't think that's what this is; this is more fruity. Kind of stuck here and I don't have a lot of experience with lagers to figure this out.

Any ideas? Most of my beers come out pretty good as far as yeast flavor profile in the beer.



__________________

"Traffic. If only it were as light as your beer" - Miller MGD 64 truck. A thought I have every day while driving in heavy traffic, downing light beers.

Search Recipes by Ingredients | Check out my brewing recipes!

Primary: Lagunitas IPA Clone
Kegged: German Pilsner, Clydesdale (Spotted Cow Clone)

Dougan is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-23-2010, 02:30 AM   #2
Yooper
Frau Admin
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 58,581
Liked 3847 Times on 2811 Posts
Likes Given: 638

Default

When you set the controller for 55 degrees, what was the temperature of the wort? I mean, at pitching. If you chilled to 50 degrees and then pitched and let it raise to 55 that would be ok. But if you only chilled the wort to, say, the mid 60s and pitched and then set it at 55, it would take a long time for the actively fermenting wort to get to the correct fermentation temperature, causing some esters.

Also, how big was the starter? A 1.053 lager might need a pretty big starter, depending on the age of the yeast.



__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-23-2010, 02:30 AM   #3
strat_thru_marshall
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 1,679
Liked 25 Times on 22 Posts
Likes Given: 32

Default

How big was your starter? You need a crap-ton of yeast to properly ferment a lager cleanly

__________________
strat_thru_marshall is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-23-2010, 02:42 AM   #4
Dougan
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Stevens Point, WI
Posts: 454
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

The beer was chilled down pretty well. It was very cold that day and I brewed it at a LHBS brew-a-thon thing. Didn't pitch till I got home so it was outside in the wisconsin cold (sealed in the fermenter of course) for a long time after my cooling. So I would bet it was no more than 55.

Starter was between 2 and 3 quarts. Which according to mrmalty pitching rate calculator (remember 4.25 gallons) is about right for a lager. So if that's accurate, I think I'm ok there...

__________________

"Traffic. If only it were as light as your beer" - Miller MGD 64 truck. A thought I have every day while driving in heavy traffic, downing light beers.

Search Recipes by Ingredients | Check out my brewing recipes!

Primary: Lagunitas IPA Clone
Kegged: German Pilsner, Clydesdale (Spotted Cow Clone)

Dougan is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-23-2010, 02:52 AM   #5
strat_thru_marshall
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 1,679
Liked 25 Times on 22 Posts
Likes Given: 32

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougan View Post
Starter was between 2 and 3 quarts. Which according to mrmalty pitching rate calculator (remember 4.25 gallons) is about right for a lager. So if that's accurate, I think I'm ok there...
Did you use a stir plate on the starter?
__________________
strat_thru_marshall is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-23-2010, 03:02 AM   #6
Dougan
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Stevens Point, WI
Posts: 454
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by strat_thru_marshall View Post
Did you use a stir plate on the starter?

No, I don't have one. My tactic with starters is usually to just shake the hell out of it every time i walk by until it has started fermenting strongly.

Not that I think it's the definitive source on the matter, but I made sure to select "simple starter" instead of "stirplate" when I used the starter size calculator on mrmalty.com. For what it's worth.
__________________

"Traffic. If only it were as light as your beer" - Miller MGD 64 truck. A thought I have every day while driving in heavy traffic, downing light beers.

Search Recipes by Ingredients | Check out my brewing recipes!

Primary: Lagunitas IPA Clone
Kegged: German Pilsner, Clydesdale (Spotted Cow Clone)

Dougan is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-23-2010, 03:59 AM   #7
rjwhite41
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Osceola, Iowa
Posts: 1,419
Liked 23 Times on 18 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

This is definitely not diacetyl. It has to be a high ferment temp. I think your temp was higher than you think when you pitched the yeast. I also think if you give it some time then it will mellow out. Another 4-6 weeks should do it wonders. For future reference I would ferment at 50 not 55.

__________________
rjwhite41 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-23-2010, 04:10 AM   #8
Dougan
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Stevens Point, WI
Posts: 454
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Oh, totally, I fermented it mostly at 50. I just had it at 55 to start off fermentation and ramped it down to 50. From what I understand, there is controversy over whether this tactic of pitching (lager yeast) slightly warm and then cooling down is the best technique, but this is at least an accepted technique, right?

Days 3-12 were all at 50 so the bulk of the fermentation occurred at this temp.

I hope you are right about the time. I have a comp at the end of Jan that I will probably submit it for the hell of it and we'll see how it is then.

__________________

"Traffic. If only it were as light as your beer" - Miller MGD 64 truck. A thought I have every day while driving in heavy traffic, downing light beers.

Search Recipes by Ingredients | Check out my brewing recipes!

Primary: Lagunitas IPA Clone
Kegged: German Pilsner, Clydesdale (Spotted Cow Clone)

Dougan is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-23-2010, 04:15 AM   #9
rjwhite41
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Osceola, Iowa
Posts: 1,419
Liked 23 Times on 18 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

It is an accepted technique. In my experience however when I pitch high I end up with the same problems you are describing. Now I pitch at 45, ferment at 50, and I have no problems. Again, in my experience, 2-3 months lagering tended to get rid of those flavors.

__________________
rjwhite41 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-23-2010, 01:03 PM   #10
markg388
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: seattle
Posts: 380
Liked 14 Times on 10 Posts

Default

What was the recipe anyway? I've noticed that sometimes in my brews munich and/or caramunich malts can highlight some fruity flavors that I otherwise wouldn't have noticed so much, especially if you're using American malts.

With that said, it's still probably a yeast or fermentation issue. I noticed you pitched your starter at high krausen, perhaps it wasn't done doing it's thing yet and you didn't REALLY pitch a 2-3 qt starter? How long was the starter made before you pitched it?

What kind of fruit are you tasting? Last time I used 2803 I had a bit of a green apple/banana blend going on (I fermented that one around 55-56). Usually that yeast is known for diacetyl. Sadly, the fruit did not leave the beer with lagering... it just got a bit less up-front.



__________________
markg388 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I want to brew a lager, any suggestions DirtyPolock General Beer Discussion 2 11-09-2010 02:16 AM
My first brew. Expectations vs. results. Loup General Beer Discussion 31 01-20-2010 05:22 AM
My first lager. Have questions/concerns profarm General Beer Discussion 4 09-01-2009 02:45 AM
First All Grain Brew Day: Results TwoHeadsBrewing General Beer Discussion 4 04-28-2008 03:24 PM
1st Brew results? strohs General Beer Discussion 4 09-18-2007 10:49 PM