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Old 01-29-2007, 06:11 PM   #1
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Default An interesting comparison- Dead Guy

Everyone who's been around for a while knows that I LOVE my Dead Guy clone. But, I thought it could be "tweaked" just a tad. The color was a little too dark, and it was just not quite bitter enough for me (although very close to the original). This last batch, I did a late extract addition with the DME and bottled today. Holy cow- the bitterness seems to be about twice as much.

We've talked about getting better hops utilization with the late extract addition- and I'm here to tell you that's what happened. It's still a very good tasting beer, but more of an ESB than a maibock style ale. Definitely a more bitter beer.

In Beersmith, the recipe as written gives about 15 IBUs. There is no way to do a late extract IBU computation (at least that I can see), so I removed the DME from the recipe and recalculated. This gave an IBU of 25. I'm guessing that's pretty close.

I'm going to be doing this recipe again, as an all-grain. I'll be keeping the IBUs low.

Lorena

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Old 01-29-2007, 06:21 PM   #2
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Cool! Nice little experiment!

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Old 01-29-2007, 06:41 PM   #3
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When I made my brewing spreadsheet, I made it to account for late extract additions in regards to IBU calculations. I used and tweaked an equation from Palmer's book. All I do when I enter the hops into my sheet is specify how long of a boil at each gravity level.

For example:
Hop 1: 40 min @ SG1, 20 min @ SG2 (say this is my bittering addition)
Hop 2: 10 min @ SG1, 20 min @ SG2 (say this is a flavor addition)
Hop 3: 5 min @ SG2 (an aroma addition)

It might not be perfect, I'm just doing a weighted averaged and there are probably brewing programs that allow for this, but it works for me.

Depending on the gravity of the beer I'm brewing, I've had it make as much as 10-15 IBU difference between my spreadsheet and the recipator on the web. Often the difference is less, 5 IBUs or less for lower/mid range OGs and lower hopping rates.

If you'd like I can send you my Excel file when I get home tonight.
Justin

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Old 01-29-2007, 06:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uwmgdman
When I made my brewing spreadsheet, I made it to account for late extract additions in regards to IBU calculations. I used and tweaked an equation from Palmer's book. All I do when I enter the hops into my sheet is specify how long of a boil at each gravity level.

For example:
Hop 1: 40 min @ SG1, 20 min @ SG2 (say this is my bittering addition)
Hop 2: 10 min @ SG1, 20 min @ SG2 (say this is a flavor addition)
Hop 3: 5 min @ SG2 (an aroma addition)

It might not be perfect, I'm just doing a weighted averaged and there are probably brewing programs that allow for this, but it works for me.

Depending on the gravity of the beer I'm brewing, I've had it make as much as 10-15 IBU difference between my spreadsheet and the recipator on the web. Often the difference is less, 5 IBUs or less for lower/mid range OGs and lower hopping rates.

If you'd like I can send you my Excel file when I get home tonight.
Justin
I'd really like that! Keep in mind, though, that I'm technologically challenged, so if it's easy, I can do it. If it's hard, I'm a moron.
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:13 PM   #5
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Sorry, but what is a late extract addition? Is this referring to adding the malt extract at the end of the boil to increase utilization of AA's during boil?

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Old 01-29-2007, 07:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebisch01
Sorry, but what is a late extract addition? Is this referring to adding the malt extract at the end of the boil to increase utilization of AA's during boil?
Yes, and it also helps to keep the color light because there is less time to darken/carmelize. I've done it before, but usually in different beer types so I couldn't really compare the difference.
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uwmgdman
If you'd like I can send you my Excel file when I get home tonight.
Justin
Interesting timing on this question! I've been working on my brew spreadsheet for a few weeks now and I'd love to compare it to what you've got - especially with this accomodation for a late extract addition. Let me know if that's cool. Thanks.
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Old 01-30-2007, 12:13 AM   #8
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I wonder what it would be like with half the additional amount of hops as a first wort then late hop the remaing.

It may give you that deeper hop flavor you are looking for at the same overall IBU.

Cheers,

knewshound

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Old 01-30-2007, 03:11 PM   #9
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I'll send that spreadsheet out now. Let me know what you think.

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Old 01-30-2007, 03:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper Chick
Everyone who's been around for a while knows that I LOVE my Dead Guy clone. But, I thought it could be "tweaked" just a tad. The color was a little too dark, and it was just not quite bitter enough for me (although very close to the original). This last batch, I did a late extract addition with the DME and bottled today. Holy cow- the bitterness seems to be about twice as much.

We've talked about getting better hops utilization with the late extract addition- and I'm here to tell you that's what happened. It's still a very good tasting beer, but more of an ESB than a maibock style ale. Definitely a more bitter beer.

In Beersmith, the recipe as written gives about 15 IBUs. There is no way to do a late extract IBU computation (at least that I can see), so I removed the DME from the recipe and recalculated. This gave an IBU of 25. I'm guessing that's pretty close.

I'm going to be doing this recipe again, as an all-grain. I'll be keeping the IBUs low.

Lorena
I did a late addition on mine, then I dryhopped it. The bitterness is high. It'll need some time before I give it a second tasting because all those flavors need to marry together while carbonated. I bet it'll be better than it is now.

I think the band-aid flavor is mor of just the flavor of the Saaz I dryhopped with. I bet it'll settle down in a few weeks.
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