Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Beer Discussion > Horrible Lager.. What went wrong?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-09-2011, 04:53 PM   #1
Kula
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Astoria, Oregon
Posts: 38
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default Horrible Lager.. What went wrong?

Brewed up my first lager/pilsener, and just tasted it as I racked it into a secondary after 4 weeks in primary, and let me tell you, this thing tasted horrible.

Here's the recipe I jury-rigged from what I had on hand.

(3 gal batch)

4 lbs Briess pilsener malt
1 lb Munich malt
1 lb dry malt
4 ounces of cascade and crystal

-two decoctions, sacc rest at ~ 150*
-60 min boil, w/ additions at 60, 45, 0
-pitched Wyeast CZECH pils at about 78*
-fermented at 52* for 21 days, slowly raised to 60* over a week.
-was going to lager at ~ 40* for three weeks.

OG - 1.049
FG - 1.012

NOTES:

Smack Pack did not swell after three days, ( I had noticed it was 9 months since MFD ) that's why I smacked it in advance.

I didn't see activity for 2.5 days or so. I oxygenated by shaking my carboy vigorously. When I didn't see activity at day 2, I gave it another shake.

Anyway,

The taste is very bitter, kind of acrid bitter, not hop round bitter. Almost no hint of malt, just this almost rubber or plastic taste that coats the tongue.

The fermentation smelled quite strange too, granted it was my first lager so I didn't know what to expect. Still, it was very vegetal, very sour, sulfur, strange aromas coming from the airlock.

I'm kind of thinking chuck the thing at this point. I can't imagine this turning into anything drinkable. Or maybe I just don't know lagers. Mostly, I'm curious about what happened, or IS happening.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

K

__________________
Kula is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-09-2011, 05:08 PM   #2
paraordnance
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 861
Liked 24 Times on 20 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

4 oz of hops in 3 gal batch?

__________________
paraordnance is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-09-2011, 05:08 PM   #3
davesrose
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 964
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

So you only pitched with the one smack pack that you had left out for 3 days? Looks like you not only didn't have enough yeast, but you used really old yeast. My guess is that another wild yeast (and probably some bacteria) fermented out your beer.

__________________
On Tap: Barleywine, Coffee Oatmeal Imperial Stout (big big beer)
Conditioning:Baltic Porter
Fermenting: Double Simcoe IPA
On the Bench: Racer 5 IPA


"One of the first things early caveman did, when he crawled out of the mudd, was to make beer. And cavemen everywhere are still making beer...and drinking beer." - Jean Sheperd
davesrose is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-09-2011, 05:10 PM   #4
CPooley4
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cottage Grove, Wisconsin
Posts: 393
Liked 13 Times on 8 Posts

Default

Don't chuck it. You've spent too much time/energy making it. Let it lager for a month and see if things mellow out. Many people are surprised what time will do for their beer.

Off a quick glance, that seems like a lot of hops for a 3 gallon batch of lager. I don't know what you added and when, but I just ran a quick scenario assuming 1 oz at 60 with 5% AA, 1 oz at 45 with 5% AA, and 2 oz at flameout and I've got your IBU's coming in at about 65 with a BU/GU ratio of 1.3. That is off the charts high for a typical lager. Keep in mind, I'm assuming by dry malt you mean DME that was added to the boil rather than mashed.

Hope this helps.

cp

__________________
CP's Brew Workbook

If you're considering buying brewing software do yourself a favor and download my Brew Chart/Workbook first. You may not need to spend that money.

I like beer math!
CPooley4 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-09-2011, 05:38 PM   #5
Kula
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Astoria, Oregon
Posts: 38
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

daverose,

yeah, that was the only yeast I pitched.

cpoole,

that was about my hopping schedule but when my buddy ran it through beersmith it was within range, something like 38-40, for a pilsener, perhaps we screwed that up, or maybe that's really what it was based on the AA% of the hops I had, dunno, but I don't think that's exactly what I'm tasting here.

The **** was acrid homie!

I've read DMS can be produced with a slow start like I had. Perhaps that could have been enhanced by my 2nd, late agitation?

Could I have got autolysis like off-flavors from pitching too much crap yeast? Doesn't that produce rubbery notes and flavors?

I think I will let it lager for a few weeks, then try it. But I've got a bad feeling about this one.

Not too sad about the beer, but if I don't learn anything, then I really will be disappointed!

__________________
Kula is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-09-2011, 05:42 PM   #6
Kula
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Astoria, Oregon
Posts: 38
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Also,

I've been fermenting in my apartment, out of direct sunlight, but not in the dark. Just kind of low, ambient daylight.

Skunked?

__________________
Kula is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-09-2011, 05:48 PM   #7
CPooley4
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cottage Grove, Wisconsin
Posts: 393
Liked 13 Times on 8 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kula View Post
daverose,

yeah, that was the only yeast I pitched.

cpoole,

that was about my hopping schedule but when my buddy ran it through beersmith it was within range, something like 38-40, for a pilsener, perhaps we screwed that up, or maybe that's really what it was based on the AA% of the hops I had, dunno, but I don't think that's exactly what I'm tasting here.

The **** was acrid homie!

I've read DMS can be produced with a slow start like I had. Perhaps that could have been enhanced by my 2nd, late agitation?

Could I have got autolysis like off-flavors from pitching too much crap yeast? Doesn't that produce rubbery notes and flavors?

I think I will let it lager for a few weeks, then try it. But I've got a bad feeling about this one.

Not too sad about the beer, but if I don't learn anything, then I really will be disappointed!
You posted the times of your hop additions, but not the quantity per addition or the specs of those hops used at those additions. I can assure you that unless you added 3 of the 4 oz at flameout you were not anywhere near 40 IBU's with a 60 and 45 minute addition using typical Crystal and Cascade hop profiles. This is still assuming the dry malt you listed is DME that was added to the boil and was not mashed.

If you could let us know the quantity and specs of the hop additions along with the dry malt verification we could tie this issue down and either add it as a potential cause to your issues or rule it out.
__________________
CP's Brew Workbook

If you're considering buying brewing software do yourself a favor and download my Brew Chart/Workbook first. You may not need to spend that money.

I like beer math!
CPooley4 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-09-2011, 05:52 PM   #8
lschiavo
Drinks Beer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
lschiavo's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Surrounded by Yoopers
Posts: 3,932
Liked 759 Times on 505 Posts
Likes Given: 517

Default

My first lager was very similar. I definately underpitched and I think that was the biggest issue. I really didnt notice rubbery flavor but it had a terrible harsh bitter atringent thing going on. I had to blend it with other beers to drink it.

I just got a pH meter and my last beer using that and adjusting my water came out very good. I was getting some of the astringency in some ales also and I think adjusting my water is clearing it up.

__________________
lschiavo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-09-2011, 05:53 PM   #9
Scooby_Brew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 995
Liked 28 Times on 21 Posts
Likes Given: 21

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kula View Post
(3 gal batch)
4 ounces of cascade and crystal
-pitched Wyeast CZECH pils at about 78*
This is your main reason for the off-balanced beer. Cascade hops simply do not go with lagers, especially European Lagers. You got too much hops for 3 gal batch. Were you going for an American-Czech-IPA-Lager? I would stick with a more recognizable style, at least at the beginning.
__________________
"My Brew Day" on YouTube.
RDWHAHB
Scooby_Brew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-09-2011, 06:00 PM   #10
CPooley4
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cottage Grove, Wisconsin
Posts: 393
Liked 13 Times on 8 Posts

Default

Crystal hops would be perfectly fine for a lager. Cascade is a little outside the norm, but woudn't ruin the beer. I think his primary issue with hops is quantity (which you address), not necessarily choice.

__________________
CP's Brew Workbook

If you're considering buying brewing software do yourself a favor and download my Brew Chart/Workbook first. You may not need to spend that money.

I like beer math!
CPooley4 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
horrible morning. WIP General Beer Discussion 11 01-22-2011 10:54 PM
Went to homebrew festival, horrible off-flavor everywhere! jimmypop13 General Beer Discussion 48 08-04-2010 11:36 PM
What to do with horrible beer? lynnt General Beer Discussion 29 02-04-2010 05:00 PM
my homebrew gives me HORRIBLE gas. BeerPressure General Beer Discussion 51 07-19-2008 09:08 PM
A horrible HBS experience bulldogxray General Beer Discussion 4 11-29-2007 08:11 PM