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Old 01-30-2015, 05:49 PM   #1
jslive4now
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Default Hops and Boil Times

Hello all!! Just a quick question ... Having a basic understanding of hops and when and why they are added .. Such as bittering (@ 60) and flavor around (@30) and aroma around end of boil (@ 15-0 min).. But I see some recipes that have adds at 10,5 and 1 and then again at FO and all the same hop... So questions is what is the benefit of this... if any???

Thanks!!

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Old 01-30-2015, 06:00 PM   #2
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Generally, the longer the boil time, the greater the isomerization of α-acids/bittering potential and the less perceived delicate flavors/aromas on the palate.

Designing the optimal hop schedule depends on the style of beer and what it calls for in terms of bitterness vs. hop flavors and aromas. Some styles require very little; others require a lot. The important thing to remember is that you do not need to add hops every minute, or worry about all of the different recipes that call for odd addition times. The brewer is most likely doing this to correct IBUs to a very specific figure (or to be different and cool).

Your best bet is to read up on the role of hops, use common sense and make your own decisions based on your own experiences.

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Old 01-30-2015, 06:07 PM   #3
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Flavor and aroma dissapear with a long boil, but are replaced by the bittering qualities of the hops. By varying the amount of time the hops are boiled, you are getting more hop flavor and aroma, but less percieved bitterness.

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Old 01-30-2015, 06:10 PM   #4
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Hops added at 10 minutes will add some bitterness and flavor/aroma. Hops added at 1 minutes will add less bitterness and more flavor/aroma.

Hops have differing levels of oils in them. You can go here: https://www.hopunion.com/hop-varieties/ and check out the hop varieties and their characteristic. Myrcene is an oil that is pretty much destroyed if it is boiled. This is the oil that shines when you dry hop.

A lot of hop flavors are based on synergy. So flavors that a single hop produces might change when added with a different hop or if that hop, and its various flavor compounds, are added to the beer pre-fermentation as the interaction with yeast can create synergistic flavor compounds that didn't exist without fermentation.

When you look at recipes for IPAs you will start to see similarities to how breweries are using hops to try and extract certain characteristic. You will also see breweries mix certain hops together to achieve a certain outcome or perception that a single hop would not or could not produce.

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Old 01-30-2015, 06:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandyeggoxj View Post
Myrcene is an oil that is pretty much destroyed if it is boiled. This is the oil that shines when you dry hop.
Good point. You can also reap Myrcene benefits during a warm hopstand. I've read this oil boils off around 167F.
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Old 01-30-2015, 07:07 PM   #6
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If going all grain, you may want to try first wort hopping. I recently tried it for the first time and liked the results. Though I don't have a fair apples to apples comparison of a batch with/without FWH additions, the IPA I did FWH with had bitterness that sat on the palette in a different, but pleasant way. Essentially the way it works, is the hops steep like tea in the 140-160 degree range. The volatile oils transform into more stable compounds that play nice with the flavors produced during the boil or flame out. During a boil, these oils in their original form just flash off and are lost. Use in moderation, it does increase the overall bitterness of your brew.

For information on first wort hop additions, how much to use, etc, refer to How to Brew by John Palmer.

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Old 01-30-2015, 07:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkm89 View Post
If going all grain, you may want to try first wort hopping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkm89 View Post
the IPA I did FWH with had bitterness that sat on the palette in a different, but pleasant way.
By all means, try it if you want to... However...

Most people don't understand FWH'ing. It has very little to do with reducing bitterness or adding flavor. It was developed by German brewers as a way to increase bittering utilization. When analyzed in a lab beers that that were FWH'd contained higher IBUs and lower concentrations of flavoring/aromatic compounds than control beers with a traditional bittering addition.

The acrid harshness that some American IPAs can possess is due to a poor understanding of brewing IPAs and the fault of the brewer. The FWH technique is not required to correct it. Rather, revisiting the recipe, the ingredients used, and the procedure as a whole will likely result in harmonizing the quality of the beer.

Smooth bitterness in an IPA can be achieved by using less of a bittering charge and implementing a 90 minute boil whereupon the first charge is added at the 75 or 60 minute mark, or after the floc is formed.

The polyphenols in hops are actually the harsh bitter culprits. They are very eagerly attracted to the non-coagulated protein which is present in the kettle during early boil. Once the hops are bound up with formed proteins, there is much less surface area exposed. These tannins/polyphenols are then mostly eliminated in the hot break. For this reason, many pro brewers add the bittering addition 15-30 minutes after the boil begins or after floc is formed. This produces a smoother bitterness without destroying the desirable hop bite in an American IPA, which is by design, an unbalanced beer style. There is nothing balanced about an American IPA. They are inherently bitter. Yes, that bitterness can be tamed a bit. But by definition, American IPAs are not supposed to be 50/50 on the sweet/bitter spectrum, or even close to that ratio.
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Old 01-30-2015, 07:44 PM   #8
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Appreciate all the fast responses!!! :-). So much to learn!!!! I haven't ventured into all grain yet due to space and location constraints... But have moved into Partial Mashes and trying to design simple recipes such as APA' and probably Some IPA's.. .. :-)

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Old 01-31-2015, 12:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbrews View Post
By all means, try it if you want to... However...



Most people don't understand FWH'ing. It has very little to do with reducing bitterness or adding flavor. It was developed by German brewers as a way to increase bittering utilization. When analyzed in a lab beers that that were FWH'd contained higher IBUs and lower concentrations of flavoring/aromatic compounds than control beers with a traditional bittering addition.



The acrid harshness that some American IPAs can possess is due to a poor understanding of brewing IPAs and the fault of the brewer. The FWH technique is not required to correct it. Rather, revisiting the recipe, the ingredients used, and the procedure as a whole will likely result in harmonizing the quality of the beer.



Smooth bitterness in an IPA can be achieved by using less of a bittering charge and implementing a 90 minute boil whereupon the first charge is added at the 75 or 60 minute mark, or after the floc is formed.



The polyphenols in hops are actually the harsh bitter culprits. They are very eagerly attracted to the non-coagulated protein which is present in the kettle during early boil. Once the hops are bound up with formed proteins, there is much less surface area exposed. These tannins/polyphenols are then mostly eliminated in the hot break. For this reason, many pro brewers add the bittering addition 15-30 minutes after the boil begins or after floc is formed. This produces a smoother bitterness without destroying the desirable hop bite in an American IPA, which is by design, an unbalanced beer style. There is nothing balanced about an American IPA. They are inherently bitter. Yes, that bitterness can be tamed a bit. But by definition, American IPAs are not supposed to be 50/50 on the sweet/bitter spectrum, or even close to that ratio.

Interesting. Based on my research I knew it changed, not reduced bitterness, but I never knew the science behind. My taste buds liked the result though. It's not my intention to hijack OPs thread so I might search the forum for more info on FWH.
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Old 01-31-2015, 03:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslive4now View Post
Having a basic understanding of hops and when and why they are added

bittering (@ 60)

flavor around (@30)

aroma around end of boil (@ 15-0 min)!
60 minutes of boiling tends to maximize the alfa acid isomerization (bittering) in the boil. There may be some more gained with longer boil, but not much. Supposedly, if you go longer than 90 minutes, you start to lose IBUs ... so don't boil too long.

At 30 minutes, you will loose most flavor, and get some bittering.

Flavor is mostly 15 to 0 minutes. There are some charts out there that say where the peak time is, but a lot of that depends on how quick you cool the wort.

Aroma is mostly 5 to 0 minutes.

Flame out is adding after wort has finished boiling. It adds a lot of aroma, some flavor, and a little bittering. Lots of debate around how best to do this. some add and cool straight away. Some add and steep for 30 (or so) minutes and cool, some (like me) cool to about 175 and then add the hops, and steep for 30 minutes (or so) and then cool .... or other variation. This addition can take as long as the main boil.

To many, whirlpool, is just occasionally stirring the steeping hops.

Hope this helps.
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