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RCCOLA · 04-05-2009, 02:34 AM

I've noticed quite a difference in the different scales to rate IBU's.The same hop schedule can yeild from 50-100IBUs depending on which one you use.I've been using tinseth for no other reason than it's just the one I started with.So which one is your choice and why?
If I've omitted one let me know and I'll add it.

llazy_llama · 04-05-2009, 02:38 AM

To be honest, I've been using Tinseth for the same reason you have. I never really stopped to think about it.

SumnerH · 04-05-2009, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCCOLA

I've noticed quite a difference in the different scales to rate IBU's.The same hop schedule can yeild from 50-100IBUs depending on which one you use.I've been using tinseth for no other reason than it's just the one I started with.So which one is your choice and why?

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/estimating-bitterness-algorithms-state-art-109681/

has some comparisons, among other things.

Tinseth is one of the better ones. Don't trust any of them too much for:

1) wheat/rye beers
2) partial boils or late-addition boils (if they try to "properly" account for those, they'll wind up _way_ off)
3) beers with added sugar (cane, corn, Belgian candi sugar or syrup, whatever)

The #1 incorrect assumption most of the algorithms make is that the gravity of the boil affects hops utilization. It doesn't, though the amount of break material (which is often but not always correlated with gravity) does. The above 3 cases are the ones where that assumption is most egregiously wrong.

enderwig · 04-05-2009, 03:24 AM

I use rager.
And you should add a poll to this thread!

*edit: Also, I think that after you have been brewing a while, it doesn't really matter, as long as you always use the same one.

SteveM · 04-05-2009, 01:40 PM

Since "none of the above" wasn't included, I went with "other." Except for buying pre-packaged kits during the worst of the hops shortage, I mostly only brew a handful of varieties, and I know how they will come out.

**Coastarine** · 04-05-2009, 02:07 PM

Rager, because I take most of my brewing advice from jamil z and that's what he uses. That way when I use his recipes I get his numbers.

notwoohoo · 04-05-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumnerH

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/estimating-bitterness-algorithms-state-art-109681/

has some comparisons, among other things.

Tinseth is one of the better ones. Don't trust any of them too much for:

1) wheat/rye beers
2) partial boils or late-addition boils (if they try to "properly" account for those, they'll wind up _way_ off)
3) beers with added sugar (cane, corn, Belgian candi sugar or syrup, whatever)

The #1 incorrect assumption most of the algorithms make is that the gravity of the boil affects hops utilization. It doesn't, though the amount of break material (which is often but not always correlated with gravity) does. The above 3 cases are the ones where that assumption is most egregiously wrong.

Gravity doesn't affect hop utilization? Please do explain, as this is contrary to everything else out there...

Blender · 04-05-2009, 02:44 PM

I use Rager. I am hesitant to switch to another because I have a good idea of the bitterness level after using it for a couple of years.

**Coastarine** · 04-05-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blender

I use Rager. I am hesitant to switch to another because I have a good idea of the bitterness level after using it for a couple of years.

That's the only good reason Jamil gives for using it too. Just pick one and get to know it.

SumnerH · 04-05-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notwoohoo

Gravity doesn't affect hop utilization? Please do explain, as this is contrary to everything else out there...

Read the link I posted:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/estimating-bitterness-algorithms-state-art-109681/

Particularly the interview with John Palmer that I discuss there (it's linked if you want to listen to it; it's a very interesting interview).

And note that the amount of _break material_ does affect the amount of hops that contributes to final IBUs. Since that is directly correlated with gravity for all-malt beers, the gravity factors built into most IBU estimation formulas acts as a useful approximation of the amount of break. That explains why for a wide range of common beers they are pretty accurate.

However, for recipes that include material that generates a lot more break material than the gravity would indicate (e.g. wheat or rye beers) the actual IBUs will be significantly lower than the formulas indicate. And for recipes that include a lot of material that generates less break material than the gravity would indicate (e.g. a Belgian strong with a lot of simple sugars) the actual IBUs will be significantly higher than the formulas indicate.

There's also an obvious impact on partial boils (the hops utilization won't be nearly as much lower in a partial boil as you'd expect if higher gravity was afftecting utilization). This is something that home brewers have known intuitively for years. If you run the numbers, to get the same bittering in a 2.5 gallon partial boil that you'd get from a 60-minute addition of 1 oz of hops in a full boil, you'd nedd 1.6 oz of the same hop. In real life, people ignore the formulas (and often brewing software doesn't implement partial boil numbers according to the formulas). They might use 10-15% more hops in a partial boil, but nowhere near 60%.