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Old 12-10-2012, 06:12 PM   #71
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Also, I should admit up front that I find myself doing this too, although I'm trying to fix it. Bad habits can be hard to kick!

Edit--realized belatedly that this thread's been worked over pretty well already, with others making the same points I made much better than I could! Note to self, read the whole conversation before adding...

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Old 12-10-2012, 06:46 PM   #72
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This thread has more butt hurt than a prison shower.
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For the record my wife doesn't find this insulting. She might actually be disappointed there isn't more recipes for girly beer and this is mostly bitching about the thread title.


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I'm not usually one to stump for PC-ness, but I don't understand why this type of chauvinism continues to get a free pass. If it were based on, for example, race-based stereotypes (rather than gender), it would never fly.

OK rant over, let the responses commence!
I'm not usually one to be PC all the time, but I got raked over the coals for saying that calling a non-beer a "girly beer" was insulting.

And it is. There ARE women on this forum who brew, and can probably brew better than some of the men who felt that demeaning women and their taste is fine. This is not a men-only playroom, and it is hurtful when someone expresses an opinion and being told that their feelings don't matter. The fact that some of you have a penis doesn't give you the right to demean those who don't.

Call it "bitching" about the thread title, but I have always been respectful of each and every one of you and have never been dismissive like that.
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In any case, I still go back to what the OP finally decided- making a beer for people who don't like beer is futile.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:20 PM   #73
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I'm just glad I live and work around women that have a sense of humor.

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Old 12-10-2012, 08:07 PM   #74
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I'm not usually one to be PC all the time, but I got raked over the coals for saying that calling a non-beer a "girly beer" was insulting.

And it is. There ARE women on this forum who brew, and can probably brew better than some of the men who felt that demeaning women and their taste is fine. This is not a men-only playroom, and it is hurtful when someone expresses an opinion and being told that their feelings don't matter. The fact that some of you have a penis doesn't give you the right to demean those who don't.

Call it "bitching" about the thread title, but I have always been respectful of each and every one of you and have never been dismissive like that.
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In any case, I still go back to what the OP finally decided- making a beer for people who don't like beer is futile.
Sorry if my comment was misunderstood, I'm completely in your corner on this one. My point was, the type of generalizations (with negative connotations for many, if not all) that people continue today to apply to women would NEVER fly if applied to another recognized category, for example, race. Could you imagine the uproar that would ensue if someone started a thread requesting beer styles for a particular people group, because "most of them" don't like hoppy beers, or strong beers, or fruity beers, or whatever?

And the arguments that are often raised in defense of this type of essentializing, again if applied on a racial/ethnic or other category, wouldn't hold water either. Imagine if someone was called out for stereotyping based on a certain people group, and their argument in response was, "Well I have two (Latino/Amerindian/East African/Aleut/Southeast Asian/Bangladeshi/any other people group you feel like inserting here) friends, and they don't see it as insulting."? Who would find that an adequate excuse?

My point is that we've become very aware of the damage that can be done by casual (often negative) stereotyping on the basis of group if the groups in question are racially or ethnically defined, but somehow it's still OK in many circumstances to use gender as a basis for said stereotypes, even when they're not meaningful--yes, of course women tend to be physically shorter than men, and in some ways their brains are wired differently, but there's nothing about male & female anatomy that I know of that would indicate we're predisposed to different tastes regarding beer, or any other food for that matter.

You see the same thing in sports media all the time--during the Olympics my friends and I adopted an impromptu drinking game where every time a commentator mentioned how "emotional" a victory or a loss or performance was, we'd down a drink. After a while we had to moderate how many female events we watched, the coverage was SO lopsided. We still joke about it. Hell, on TV adds you constantly see the "manly" equals "good" message, with trucks and sportscars and everything else under the sun. I find it frankly ridiculous, and that's what I was trying to point out earlier.

Incidentally, it's just a little ironic that the disgust over people taking things like this too seriously is just a thin veneer of another well worn trope, that "women are too emotional". I'm glad to see I'm not the only guy on the boards who is happy to get a little upset over women being categorized, to show that you're not the only ones who "overreact".
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:41 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
I'm not usually one to be PC all the time, but I got raked over the coals for saying that calling a non-beer a "girly beer" was insulting.

And it is. There ARE women on this forum who brew, and can probably brew better than some of the men who felt that demeaning women and their taste is fine. This is not a men-only playroom, and it is hurtful when someone expresses an opinion and being told that their feelings don't matter. The fact that some of you have a penis doesn't give you the right to demean those who don't.

Call it "bitching" about the thread title, but I have always been respectful of each and every one of you and have never been dismissive like that.
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In any case, I still go back to what the OP finally decided- making a beer for people who don't like beer is futile.

I usually stay out of this kind of discussion, but I've been following this one, and I have to say that this type of thing does feel demeaning, regardless of whether or not it seems like it to some (or their wives, or the women in their lives). I can't tell you how many times I've been referred to as a "he" if someone referenced one of my posts, but I don't jump on anyone for that. I realize it's mostly men on this forum so I try to ignore it.

As a female brewer, it's not always easy to merely "overlook" this kind of thing. I think it was awfully nice of Yooper to still share a recipe with the OP, and was happy that there was so much support voiced.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:30 PM   #76
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Personally, I can't seem to stay OUT of these kinds of discussions. I think discussing what is offensive to you is the only way to cultivate a more polite society. Here is the perfect, enlightening exchange...

Person 1: Blah blah blah
Person 2: Hey, I really dont like that because of blah.
Person 1: Sorry, I didnt mean it like that
Person 2: Its ok, now to answer your original question...

We didnt get that. OP got defensive, even said "BFD" (typically its a poor idea to not only insult a woman in her own house but to tell her to deal with it). Blaming these kids today and their political correctness for being offensive is weak sauce.

With that said, I applaud the OP for wanting to make the ladies in his life something they enjoy. God this thread could have went so much differently.. and better.

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Old 12-11-2012, 07:43 PM   #77
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Thanks for dragging this crap back to the top. This thread should have been locked already.

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Old 12-11-2012, 07:59 PM   #78
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God this thread could have went so much differently.. and better.
No. I don't think it could have gone differently. Sexist titles have a habit of throwing threads off track very quickly.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:03 PM   #79
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I just meant that it could have been titled differently, and OP could have gotten recipes for the women he loves. Everyone could have been so happy. Someone might have even said "women, em'irite?" and we'd all chuckle.

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Old 12-11-2012, 08:06 PM   #80
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All of my long-term girlfriends hated 99 out of 100 beers. I have always been one to make my partner taste a sip in the hopes they would like it. Sweet fruit beers, ice cold BMC, or beers reminiscent of chocolate fudge were the only exceptions.

That's not to say all women hate beer... just the one's I haven't dated I guess :< poor me. Though I'm sure we could all use that line for many other instances

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