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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Beer Discussion > Good taste at kegging, but not after aging and drinkin...
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:24 PM   #21
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I don't think purging the keg will do any good. You are priming with sugar, so just like bottling, the yeast will purge the oxygen for you. I don't think it's an infection either as they usually have a sour/musty taste that you did not describe.

How do the AAs on your hops compare to the recipe? By chance was your extract prehopped? You say "no aroma" - and that's usually a sign that there is something going on with your hops.

Next time you prime, you could bottle a few to see if by chance there is a problem in your kegs to eliminate that concern.

I know people say that green beer is bad, but I've had it both ways. I've had beer that takes 6 months to peak, but I've also had beer that was at its peak when it was first carbed.

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Old 12-10-2009, 02:48 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by YooperBrew View Post
First, you can't just "allow sanitizer to go up the diptube". Take it apart. Replace the o-rings, and clean and sanitize fully.

Secondly, you MUST purge the keg immediately upon filling. You could even put some co2 in the keg before racking your beer into it. Close it up, then give it a blast of c02 (I do it at 30 psi), pull the pressure relief valve, and do it a couple of more time. Oxidized beer will have an unpleasant flavor, a certain wet cardboard flavor, and it will be apparent if you age the beers for several weeks/months with 02 in the keg.

I think those two techniques will fix any problems with your poor flavor.

Also, 2.5 ounces (by weight) of priming sugar is sufficient for one keg. You don't need 3/4 of a cup. That's for bottling.
First, I have never heard of people taking their kegs apart for every single use to clean and sanitize. Only upon receipt of new kegs and what not. I force sanitizer through the dipstick via air compressor hookups and sanitize. i have heard of numerous people doing this.

Secondly, I don't see the need for purging the keg of O2 with CO2. I am not introducing O2 into the beer since it is already at it's saturation point of gas with the CO2 from fermentation. Once the kegged beer finishes fermenting the priming sugar, the beer will be saturated with CO2 (supersaturated at STP)... not O2. Since I'm not blowing bubbles of O2 into the beer after kegging, I don't see the need.
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:56 PM   #23
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I don't think purging the keg will do any good. You are priming with sugar, so just like bottling, the yeast will purge the oxygen for you. I don't think it's an infection either as they usually have a sour/musty taste that you did not describe.

How do the AAs on your hops compare to the recipe? By chance was your extract prehopped? You say "no aroma" - and that's usually a sign that there is something going on with your hops.

Next time you prime, you could bottle a few to see if by chance there is a problem in your kegs to eliminate that concern.

I know people say that green beer is bad, but I've had it both ways. I've had beer that takes 6 months to peak, but I've also had beer that was at its peak when it was first carbed.
I don't think it's oxidation either.

The AA's are balanced with the OG. The extract I buy is not prehopped. I use LD Carlson DME Pilsen Light for all my batches so I can control the color with my steeping grains. Really though, there is like no aroma at all and I can't see how that is the case. Maybe I have had a sinus infection since July and can't smell.

I might try and bottle a few I guess, but when i started into this hobby, I skipped bottling and went straight to kegging. I need to find a capper and some caps...

I have tried to use the flavor/aroma wheel found online to try and pinpoint my downfall but the beer taste is really not any found on the wheel.

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Old 12-10-2009, 03:00 PM   #24
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Its probably oxidation or infection. Some infections don't really add any off flavor but can remove flavor, body or sweetness. This can leave the beer out of balance and tasting harshly bitter in some cases.

I don't see why if you are keg priming you would need to purge the keg of oxygen. People bottle conditioning aren't purging the bottles of oxygen. There is less relative head space in a keg too, I think this is a red herring.

I also think anything to do with ingredients or water is a red herring. I have not known bad ingredients to make a good tasting beer that later tastes bad. Infection and oxidation do that.
I've actually had bad water do that. The beer tasted fine coming out of the secondary. As soon as it was carbonated, the harsh flavors came through. I don't have any scientific reasoning for it.
I corrected my water and that fixed the problem. (not saying water is the OP's problem, but it hasn't exactly been ruled out yet either.)
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:05 PM   #25
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I've actually had bad water do that. The beer tasted fine coming out of the secondary. As soon as it was carbonated, the harsh flavors came through. I don't have any scientific reasoning for it.
I corrected my water and that fixed the problem. (not saying water is the OP's problem, but it hasn't exactly been ruled out yet either.)
Well, since that was your problem as well, I am starting to wonder if that's the case. The thing is, my IPA is the only beer I made with Distilled water, not the Spring water I have used for the rest of my brews. The IPA actually tastes a lot different than the others. I ruled this out already, but it may be back in play as being the culprit, since this was the case with you after kegging.

What water are you using (or are you building it)?
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:14 PM   #26
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I build mine from distilled now. The first couple batches I made with my well water, thinking that if it tasted fine, then it must make good beer...WRONG!

I wouldn't draw any conclusions yet. However, I would try to contact ACME and see if they have a water analysis for their spring water. Then go from there...

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Old 12-10-2009, 03:27 PM   #27
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First, I have never heard of people taking their kegs apart for every single use to clean and sanitize. Only upon receipt of new kegs and what not. I force sanitizer through the dipstick via air compressor hookups and sanitize. i have heard of numerous people doing this.

Secondly, I don't see the need for purging the keg of O2 with CO2. I am not introducing O2 into the beer since it is already at it's saturation point of gas with the CO2 from fermentation. Once the kegged beer finishes fermenting the priming sugar, the beer will be saturated with CO2 (supersaturated at STP)... not O2. Since I'm not blowing bubbles of O2 into the beer after kegging, I don't see the need.
I didn't say to do it every single time (although I often do, and have found hop leaves and other debris in the poppit). If there is an off-flavor you're trying to chase down, though, it's important to do it to ensure there is no infection/dirty poppit/crud/yeast sediment/yucky o-ring, etc. Something is causing the trouble, so it would be worth it to start at the beginning. Since it's fine up until kegging, I would start with the kegs.

Maybe it isn't oxidation, but purging the keg of oxygen and flooding with co2 would remove that possibility, too. Oxidized beer is flavorless, and loses much of its aroma and distinctiveness. That's why I thought it would be worthwhile to prevent any possibility of it. Your description certainly sounds like an oxidation issue to me.

If you don't want to purge the o2 out, that's fine with me. It only takes about $.01 worth of co2, though, and it's a good preventative. I'm just making suggestions to help you track down your problem. If you don't want to take my advice, that's perfectly fine.
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:00 PM   #28
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I didn't say to do it every single time (although I often do, and have found hop leaves and other debris in the poppit). If there is an off-flavor you're trying to chase down, though, it's important to do it to ensure there is no infection/dirty poppit/crud/yeast sediment/yucky o-ring, etc. Something is causing the trouble, so it would be worth it to start at the beginning. Since it's fine up until kegging, I would start with the kegs.

Maybe it isn't oxidation, but purging the keg of oxygen and flooding with co2 would remove that possibility, too. Oxidized beer is flavorless, and loses much of its aroma and distinctiveness. That's why I thought it would be worthwhile to prevent any possibility of it. Your description certainly sounds like an oxidation issue to me.

If you don't want to purge the o2 out, that's fine with me. It only takes about $.01 worth of co2, though, and it's a good preventative. I'm just making suggestions to help you track down your problem. If you don't want to take my advice, that's perfectly fine.
So it has to be either my water or the kegs. I guess I will take apart the keg next time and completely clean all the parts (need to get a deep well socket for the ball locks).

Now that you explained what oxidized beer taste like (or lack thereof), I am going half in on it being that. After I keg it next time, I am going to not use priming sugar, and I am going to pressurize with CO2 and flip the poppet a few times to clear as much O2 as possible. I might even try to clear my keg I just filled this past Monday with CO2 to see if that's it. I am still a little skeptical of this though since you don't clear bottles with CO2 from the post earlier in this thread...
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:10 PM   #29
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Secondly, I don't see the need for purging the keg of O2 with CO2. I am not introducing O2 into the beer since it is already at it's saturation point of gas with the CO2 from fermentation. Once the kegged beer finishes fermenting the priming sugar, the beer will be saturated with CO2 (supersaturated at STP)... not O2. Since I'm not blowing bubbles of O2 into the beer after kegging, I don't see the need.
First, people use a lot more sugar to bottle carb then keg carb, so theres a lot more pressure from CO2. Second, theres a lot more oxygen in most Kegs (compared to bottles). The shape of a bottle is designed so that theres as little volume in the neck as possible, and as small of an air-beer interface as possible.
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Old 12-10-2009, 04:47 PM   #30
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First, people use a lot more sugar to bottle carb then keg carb, so theres a lot more pressure from CO2. Second, theres a lot more oxygen in most Kegs (compared to bottles). The shape of a bottle is designed so that theres as little volume in the neck as possible, and as small of an air-beer interface as possible.
Yes, I agree, there is a lot more O2 in kegs but if the beer is already at its saturation point with gas (CO2 in this case from fermentation), there really isn't any way that the O2 sitting on top of the beer would dissolve into the beer. With the pressure in the keg building from the yeast eating the priming sugar, the beer would be super saturated with CO2 at STP.

Either way, I think I will try and clean the keg of O2 next shot I get... and I am going to use Distilled water I think...
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