Giving advice without sounding like...

...a d00sh.

Let's say someone gave you a particularly awful homebrew and wanted your critique. How have some of you guys handled that situation without insulting the brewer?

Uhh, check out the post titled "Greatest Beer Reviewer Ever", and do the exact opposite of the guy in the video!

Don't worry, I didn't try to judge the color of the beer while it was still in the bottle.

ooklathemok said:

...a d00sh.

Let's say someone gave you a particularly awful homebrew and wanted your critique. How have some of you guys handled that situation without insulting the brewer?

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Is this a close friend or an acquaintance? If it's just an acquaintance, I might ask them questions about their process and if you find discrepancies between your brewing and theirs that would likely improve their beer use a friendly tone and just simply state your process and the results you tend to get from it. If they are asking for an honest opinion, there's nothing wrong with giving it in a non-demeaning tone.

I myself have asked for honest, no BS assessments of my first beers because I was trying to convince myself that they were good beers when they were not. My friends were honest and gave me very helpful suggestions without being arseholes.

Just my $.02

ooklathemok said:

Don't worry, I didn't try to judge the color of the beer while it was still in the bottle.

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I think that was my favorite part!

I always give honest opinions, I can't help myself. Drinking someone's beer, detect a little diacytal - let them know so they can work through their fermentation. Was just sampling a friend's mead the other day, had to mention to him that it was a bit harsh, he had given me a bottle and I told him I was going to cellar it for a year or so to see whether it mellowed (as I expect it will) over time. It's not that hard to give honest feedback without being a dick, and less-than-honest feedback does no one any good.

It's an acquaintance. I don't want to come off like a snob though. It's drain-pour bad.

Well, don't tell him EVERYTHING you don't like about it. Mention one or two things that you think could stand improvement; if it's got a lot of hot alchohols, mention that it's a bit harsh and ask him if he's ever tried doing an ice bath to keep fermentation temperatures lower. You don't have to say "Dude, this sucks."

I really want to be helpful, but I don't even know where to start. If it was a little diacetyl, that be one thing. This stuff...whoa. I've never spit beer out before.

Well... what was it about the beer? Hot? Twangy (old extract?) Cider-ey? You've got to be able to describe the problems (and hopefully offer suggestions on how to improve things) to be able to give constructive criticism.

the_bird said:

Well, don't tell him EVERYTHING you don't like about it. Mention one or two things that you think could stand improvement; if it's got a lot of hot alchohols, mention that it's a bit harsh and ask him if he's ever tried doing an ice bath to keep fermentation temperatures lower. You don't have to say "Dude, this sucks."

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Agreed. Pick a few things about the beer where you know he can improve the quality and make suggestions on how you would do it. You say it's drain-pour quality, sounds like it would be easy to pick out a few key suggestions that would improve his beer. Time and patience is usually the first suggestion I make. If I taste a homebrew that I know was racked, bottled, or opened too soon I will say something like: "Out of curiosity, how long did you let this ride while it was fermenting? It tastes a little young, but I bet it would clean up a lot better if you let sit a couple more weeks."

That's hard because he really might want honest feedback. Or, he might want accolades because he thinks his beer is great.

I was in a beerswap once when I got a couple of bad beers. I gave my review, trying to be diplomatic and mentioning I've picked up some astringency. (It was mouth puckeringly astringent, almost foul). The guy's response was, "Oh, yeah, I've noticed that too. How do you like the beer?" I talked about possible causes (water and temperature mostly), but he wasn't interested. He wanted me to say, "Great beer!" and I just couldn't. I couldn't even drink it.

So, if he wants honesty, a good helpful response like the_bird suggested would be great. If he just wants you to say, "good beer!", then tell him that it's not your kind of beer and you normally drink IPAs (or whatever his beer is not). I've noticed that if I say I'm not wild about a beer, I'm a "beer snob".

Yep. List the beer's good points--if there are any-- then tactfully mention what needs improvement.

What style is it? Let's say he brewed a Brown Porter, read up on 12A in the BJCP style guidelines. Then you can critique to your hearts content, "Yeah the mouth feel is kind of, I don't know, like cough syrup; did you use a lot of Carapils?" or "I know this was a Porter, didn't those originate in England? You really captured the stale moldy flavor I would expect from the English countryside, it kind of tastes like sorrow, good job".

Seriously, just be honest, if you don't he will brew the same swill again. He will not know what is wrong with it. You do not have to come out and say "Wow that tastes like what I would expect a urinal to taste like". Just tell him what flavors are putting off, it tastes like popcorn, or a band aid, or oddly bitter like tea, etc.


Odds are he already knows the off flavors, if he doesn't it is not going to matter anyways.

If I were the brewer, I'd want the most frank and honest review I could get. Diplomacy is fine if they aren't interested in hearing anything other than "tastes good", but that wont' help make great beer.

I don't think there is one right answer here. It really depends on the brewer's attitude toward his beer.

I think I'd point out the obvious flaws. Things that can be fixed and that can make the most difference in improving the beer. One or maybe two things. Ask about his process and see if you can give some advice. Always try and mention something good about it too.

Does this person know you are a homebrewer too?? Maybe he is really looking for an honest opinion to try and help himself out. Maybe fill out a BJCP score sheet and give it to him in the mail!! That way you wont' have to see the hurt look in his eyes.

He knows I brew. I hope he just wants an honest opinion.

I don't even have to ask, this thing was fermented in his attic. You could take paint off with it. He's seems like a really cool dude, I just don't know him very well, so I can't say if he really wants me to rip into it.

I was seriously considering the BJCP scoresheet.

Oh and this

Whiskey said:

What style is it? Let's say he brewed a Brown Porter, read up on 12A in the BJCP style guidelines. Then you can critique to your hearts content, "Yeah the mouth feel is kind of, I don't know, like cough syrup; did you use a lot of Carapils?" or "I know this was a Porter, didn't those originate in England? You really captured the stale moldy flavor I would expect from the English countryside, it kind of tastes like sorrow, good job".

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Is some funny stuff.

yeoldebrewer said:

Yep. List the beer's good points--if there are any-- then tactfully mention what needs improvement.

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+1. Start off with something nice, even if it is just something like the carbonation being proper.

Well, maybe we can brainstorm a little what's wrong so you can be more specific when you talk to him. It'll make you sound like you thought about it more deeply.

I would try to get his impression of it first. If he can't be honest with himself, any criticism you lay upon his creation will be ignored.

Dammit, if his fermentation temps were out of control, then he is screwed, and just tell him! That is like Basic Brewing 101!

Point him in this direction. He can get lots of great advice on how to keep the temps in range, and other somewhat important things.

beerkrump said:

I would try to get his impression of it first. If he can't be honest with himself, any criticism you lay upon his creation will be ignored.

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Good idea. Ask him, "How do you think is tastes??"

There's nothing more important for this guy to learn other than "fermentation temperatures are probably the single most important variable in brewing good beer." Attics are NEVER a good place for fermentation, they're either way too hot or way too cold. Tell him that it's not as smooth as it should be, those "solventy" flavors shouldn't be present.

Dude: Compliment sandwich.

List something that was good (good color? smell?)
List a few things that were bad, but not that it could be improved by maybe X X, or X
List the best feature of the beer (dig hard for this one), and really pump it up.

So you could be like "Well, the color was a nice, deep amber (even if it's the wrong color for the style), and the label was pretty awesome! In terms of areas for improvement, I did notice some hot flavors, which might be from a too hot fermentation perhaps? I'm not positive, but I think it smelled like a prisoner's butthole after lockdown, but that might just be due to [leaving it in the hot sun too long / Using expired ingredients/ having to smuggle it across state lines in your rectum/ etc etc]. Finally, I really liked [best feature], which I think is the best feature of this beer."

Diplomatic, insightful, useful (if they want the advice), easy for those that don't want the advice to only hear the compliment breading and overlook the roast beef insides.

Thanks for the input.

I have no problems being honest about some minor flaws, the beer having good points would help.

It's just really bad. I might have detected some caramel aromas underneath the thick layers of sickeningly fruity, bubblegum esters and solvent-like hot alcohol. The flavor is overwhelmingly bitter, not hop bitter, but crushed Tylenol/medicinal bitter. The color's right.

I suppose I just gotta break it to him. The ferment is where this thing went wrong. Needs some temp control first and foremost.

If you are not completely honest, then he will continue to brew bad beer. I NEED honesty and ask it from everyone I give a beer to. I have also been given drain pour quality beer before and although I didn't say that I tossed it, I did point out the problems with the beer. The point of an evaluation has to be to improve the quality of the beer. So if you're not honest, then that will take alot longer to happen and that's a waste of money. If my BMC drinkers don't like something and they can tell me what it is about it that they don't like, then I'm happy. Unfortunately, most of those guys/gals can't put a finger on it.

"Overall it's not a bad attempt"

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The beer may be bad, but A for effort.

"My beers improved dramatically when I started doing [x]"

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Whatever the solution for him would be.

"I'll send some links on how to do [X], you'll love it. Also, you should spend all of your free time on HBT, that's how I learned to troubleshoot problems with my process"

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Or, you could invite him over for your next brewday and let him see a successful process in action.

Personally, I want an honest opinion and nothing else. Being a jerk really has little to do with it one way or the other. A jerk is a jerk no matter what and nothing will change that. If I am asked for my opinion, I give it my best shot and most times I do it respectfully. The exceptions being with some of my closer brewing buddies. We have a tendency to razz each other quite a bit, but we also provide each other with valuable feedback. It's all in fun. We don't use those tactics on newbies or strangers. That would not be cool at all and could well turn someone off from the hobby completely. I tell my best friend his beer tastes like **** when it actually does and I tell him that it's great when it actually is. Most times most of our beer leans toward the great end of the scale, but when it doesn't, we don't pull punches.