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nasty_rabbit · 10-05-2012, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpertskir

If after a month they don't give me any response, I'll poo poo their name on the internet and really restrict my purchasing of their beer.

That'll shut them down

wittmania · 10-05-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwwbrennan

Regardless of what else it is, it is great marketing. There are ample indicators that a poor beer with good marketing will out sell a good beer with poor marketing.

Exactly. There are a zillion IPA and Pale Ale recipes out there. You think the brewery that makes the "best" one is the one that will make the most money? Doubtful. Instead, it is the BRAND at will win out in any market. Odell makes some decent beer, but I'm less likely to buy it now. Do I feel entitled? Not really. Are they entitled to my beer money? Nope.

My point is that it costs them more in the long run to treat home brewers like "competitors" and that's bad business. Of course they can do that if they want, and I can share my experience and opinion on HBT if I want. And if my post makes people less likely to be loyal drinkers of Odell and more likely to drink Blvd beer, then the way they treat their home brewer customers is actually hurting their bottom line, not helping it.

**AnOldUR** · 10-05-2012, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmacro

You still sound incredibly entitled.

They can do what they want with their own product; they don't owe you anything and they don't need to kiss your ass when they say "no" - a simple "obvious reasons" is fine - trade secrets, duh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalmer9

Sorry, used to work in retail, and self entitled customers are the most annoying thing in the world.

From an outside observation, I can see why you no longer work in retail. Expecting a prompt, courteous response is not being self entitled. It's called customer service. What ever happened to, "The customer is always right?" A business that can say no to a customer request and leave them feeling like they did you a favor is one that will succeed.

But I agree. Boycotting a business because they don't have a person with that talent responding to your emails is silly.

**2BeerSpeer** · 10-05-2012, 11:51 AM

I've had several brewers give me full recipes and really expected them to laugh at me when I asked so I completely understand if they decline...I've been asked for my bbq sauce recipe that I sell and have to respectfully decline as it is easier to copy than a beer.

BradleyBrew · 10-05-2012, 12:04 PM

Yeah, I wouldnt hate on a brewery for not giving you the information you requested. They told you the main ingredients. Why did you not just invite them over for a brew session and have'em brew it up for you. I'm gonna email Gordon Ramsey for a recipe on beef wellington.

ajlee · 10-05-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wittmania

Are they entitled to my beer money? Nope.

Yes, that's the beauty of a free market.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wittmania

My point is that it costs them more in the long run to treat home brewers like "competitors" and that's bad business.

Not likely. I think home brewers make up a small percentage of the overall beer drinking population, and the percentage of home brewers who would let something like this influence their buying is even less. It's their recipe, they are not obligated to give it to you because you like it. From a response time issue they are not in the business of helping people brew their beer, so I'm ok if those emails go to the bottom of the pile, or are not answered at all.

**kombat** · 10-05-2012, 01:08 PM

Coke's been guarding their recipe for over 100 years. KFC's "11 herbs and spices" are also a trade secret (although I'm pretty sure one of them is "salt"). I don't think it's at all unreasonable for a brewery to guard its recipes. After all, if they gave it to you, you'd probably be able to brew something very close, and would stop buying their beer. Worse, you'd probably share it with others, resulting in others buying less beer, too.

Now of course, in the grand scheme of things, the loss of a couple cases of beer every few months wouldn't even show up on their radar. But if they shared their recipe with EVERY brewer who asked (not just you), it would eventually add up, wouldn't it?

**ktblunden** · 10-05-2012, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kombat

Coke's been guarding their recipe for over 100 years. KFC's "11 herbs and spices" are also a trade secret (although I'm pretty sure one of them is "salt"). I don't think it's at all unreasonable for a brewery to guard its recipes. After all, if they gave it to you, you'd probably be able to brew something very close, and would stop buying their beer. Worse, you'd probably share it with others, resulting in others buying less beer, too.

Now of course, in the grand scheme of things, the loss of a couple cases of beer every few months wouldn't even show up on their radar. But if they shared their recipe with EVERY brewer who asked (not just you), it would eventually add up, wouldn't it?

Vinnie freely shares the Pliny the Elder recipe with anyone who asks. The PDF he created for the recipe can be found all over the internet. Pliny continues to sell out as soon as it's stocked on shelves.

HerbieHowells · 10-05-2012, 02:26 PM

I have met both Doug Odell and Adam Avery. Both of them are really nice guys, or at least they seemed that way to me. Odell is quite a bit more old-school than Avery. He is a jeans and tee shirt guy, he isn't as smooth of a talker as Avery, and if you look at his brewery, the bulk of their sales are American interpretations of English ales, rather than envelope pushing big beers. It might be that the brewery's attitude towards sharing recipes is just part of their old-school style. He came up in a different era of home brewing. Yes, you really should try to reply to phone calls and e-mails as soon as possible. But I think you just deal with a slightly different culture at Odell, and you might want to take it easy on them.

**kombat** · 10-05-2012, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktblunden

Vinnie freely shares the Pliny the Elder recipe with anyone who asks. The PDF he created for the recipe can be found all over the internet. Pliny continues to sell out as soon as it's stocked on shelves.

Right, but Coke and KFC are massive, wildly successful, global corporations, whereas Russian River is a tiny, local microbrewery.

I'm not saying there's a concrete link between secrecy and success, but there is certainly empirical evidence to suggest that may be the case. The longstanding big guys guard their recipes, while the upstarts share in an attempt to build recognition.

This applies to other industries, too. Linux source code is freely available, while Windows is not. Yet Microsoft is obviously massively more successful than RedHat. OpenOffice vs. Microsoft Office. GIMP vs. Photoshop. Openly sharing information may be a nice gesture, and appreciated by niche afictionados, but it seems to be counter-productive to achieving mass-market success.