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Old 06-27-2012, 05:37 PM   #21
jkendal
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I'm very familiar with early and late hop additions re: flavor vs. bitterness (been brewing for close to 10 years now) but I've always heard that 60 minutes seems to be the point of diminished returns (i.e. less bitterness the longer you boil past that, not more), but must admit I've never seen the science on this. I've just always been a bit confused on FWH because of so many differing opinions re: flavor vs. bitterness when REPLACING a hop addition with them. I've heard people say you should replace the flavor addition but now you guys are saying replace the early addition. As I mentioned earlier, I've done several beers with FWH but those were recipes I formulated from scratch (one which is killer btw), I just never REPLACED a hop addition with them (should have clarified). Since you guys have experimented I think I'll try replacing the 60 minute addition on my next brew.

Thanks, y'all.

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Old 06-27-2012, 05:41 PM   #22
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I do FWH at all my batches. Few days ago I brewed dunkelweizen and for the 1st time I added FWH as only hop addition, just to see what it tastes like. I am very courious about results.

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Old 06-27-2012, 05:47 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkendal
I'm very familiar with early and late hop additions re: flavor vs. bitterness....
I think Palmer stated that late hop additions should be replaced for FWH, something about 30%.. correct me if I"m wrong.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:50 PM   #24
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I recently did some FWH with some Simcoe and though I don't use Simcoe much and it's still conditioning, what I've tried already was very nice! Smoother than I would have thought. I used it as an addition to my 60 minute instead and did both the FWH and 60 minute. Not sure it made that much difference but I'm going to do this more often in the future and see where it takes me.

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Old 06-27-2012, 05:55 PM   #25
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Very cool concept that I had not heard of. I think I'll give it a shot in about ten minutes when I sparge the Octoberfest I'm mashing right now.

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Old 06-27-2012, 06:07 PM   #26
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My last two brews I used FWH.

One was an american wheat and the other was a cascadian dark ale. I used the method of cutting down the 60 minute addition and replacing the lost IBU's with a FWH of the hops I was going to use in the flavoring and aroma additions. Both beers turned out very smooth with good bitter flavor. Admittedly, not brewing these without the FWH, I don't know that they wouldn't be just as good.

As an example, in my CDA I used this hop schedule for a total of 70 IBUs (Estimated IBUs from beersmith).

0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - First Wort 9.1 IBUs
0.30 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - First Wort 8.5 IBUs
0.30 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 12.9 IBUs

0.30 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min 12.7 IBUs

0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min 6.4 IBUs
0.30 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min 5.9 IBUs
0.30 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min 9.0 IBUs

0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min 1.7 IBUs
0.30 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min 1.5 IBUs
0.30 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min 2.3 IBUs

0.75 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs
0.40 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs
0.40 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs

0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Day Hop 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days 0.0 IBUs
0.30 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days 0.0 IBUs

When I brew it again I think I'm going to move the 30 minute down to 20, but that's the topic of a whole new thread.

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Old 06-27-2012, 06:36 PM   #27
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I guess I'm out of the norm here. I FWH all my beers unless there's a very specific style or clone reason NOT to do so. However, I simply shift the 60min addition to FWH and leave my others (20-0min) the same.

Since I've begun this practice, I've gotten positive comments on my hop character from friends, pro brewers, and BJCP National judges. I don't want a tongue-raping IPA but a firm bitterness and complex, delicious hop flavors and aromas!

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Old 06-27-2012, 06:51 PM   #28
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I have used FWH as my only hop addition on several beers. These were all using recipes that had 60, 20, & 5 min additions. I liked the FWH only batches the best. I have tried Saaz, Magnum, Northern Brewer, & EKG as FWH only. Styles I have tried FWH only are: Cream, Amber, Blonde & Brown Ales.

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Old 06-27-2012, 07:21 PM   #29
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I have done my last 3 brews using FWH. Two of them are still fermenting.

My understanding going into it was that the FWH addition was supposed to be made up of half what you were going to use for flavor/aroma hops. As there was some sort of "magic" that happened when you soak hops at around 150f allowing the flavor compounds to permanently bond with something in the wort which prevents them (the flavors) from being boiled off.

The one I've already tasted is a kristallweizen
10g
10lbs 2-row
8lbs white wheat
1.25oz hallertau mittelfruh 4.5% (leaf) FWH
Wyeast 3333
O.G. 1.048
F.G. 1.006

It's a super light, super clear (I filter it), refreshing beer that taste remarkably like a light lager to my poker buddies. The bitterness was more noticeable than previous batches, but the beer was also a lot less sweet. I used pure O2 for the first time when I made this batch and the F.G. was considerably lower then previous batches. But the bitterness, only 11IBUs, was noticeable and very smooth. I'm encouraged about FWH.

On the second one I did something a little different. This one is a brown porter.

10g
17lbs 2-row
1.5lbs Crystal 60
1lb Chocolate malt
8oz Black patent
2oz hallertau mittelfruh 4.5% (leaf) FWH
2oz hallertau mittelfruh 4.5% (leaf) 30min
Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire

So there is no flavor or aroma addition, but based on what I read I'm expecting some hop flavor from the FHW addition. The 30min addition was just to get the IBUs where I wanted them, I store the leaf hops in 2oz portions. I'm excited to see how this one turns out, but this is a completely revised porter recipe for me so I can't compare it to my previous batches.

The most recent batch is an ESB, my most brewed recipe.

10g
18lbs Maris Otter
1lb Crystal 60
8oz Biscuit Malt
8oz Caravienne
1oz EKG (UK) 5.1% (leaf) FWH
2oz Northern Brewer 10% (leaf) 60min
1oz EKG (UK) 5.1% (leaf) 5min
Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire

So I took out what I would have used as a flavor addition and used it as a FWH and left my normal 60min addition of Norther Brewer as is. I'm expecting more bitterness but also some flavor from the FWH.

Hope it turns out well.

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Old 06-27-2012, 07:29 PM   #30
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Any of you guys ever done FWH on an extract brew? I have done some reading on here but haven't found a ton of people who have done this. What would be the best way to mimic this with extract brewing?

Steep the grains and then add the FWH and wait a specified period before moving on with boil
While steeping the grains add the FWH
Steep grains and add part of the extract, add then FWH, then wait a specified period before moving on with boil? (FYI, i always use a late addition)

thanks

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