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Old 09-07-2012, 06:54 PM   #11
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Personally it was disappointing to find out that the Whitehouse beers were extract. Not because there is anything wrong with extract beers, but because it is the freakin' Whitehouse - I would expect more from them. Those recipes were like the equivalent of making pie with pre-bought dough rather than rolling out your own, which is suitable for lots of situations but not in my opinion for the Whitehouse and the president of the United States.
Who cares as long as the pie tastes awesome?


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Old 09-07-2012, 07:01 PM   #12
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I was a bit surprised to see White House beer recipes were an extract base but hey...
Maybe guy making the beer hasn't made the leap to all grain (heard it was the White House Chefs making and President purchased kit),
Maybe it's a time issue (I could pound out an extract batch on a weeknight after work... not so much with an All-Grain).
whatever the reason, whatever the method, I think it's great...
I still can't figure out why folks EXPECTED it to be all grain? Do folks not realize that large numbers of ag brewing in this hobby is a relatively RECENT phenomenon? And despite what it looks like in online communities, the MAJORITY of the world's homebrewers are still brewing extract beers, and kits at that.

Especially starting out. It doesn't take much reading of the beginner forums to see that only about 1 in 10 first time brewers starts brewing all grain from the get go.

Everyone else is doing Mr Beer, or cooper's kits.

Easy all grain brewing is really recent....it really came about when folks figured out that you can do it with a turkey fryer and a cooler modified with a toilet braid. That really was less than a decade ago.

Papazain's ZAP a PAP system, or oven mashing, didn't really catch on all that much. Just with real die-hards.

What really sparked "easy AG" was when John Palmer wrote about the Australian Brew in the Bag method in BYO magazine in 2009

Those were the two things that have "democratized" all grain brewing....making it cheap, less scary and accessable.

But it's still going to be a minority of the hobby.

I don't get why folks think that every homebrewer on the planet wants to "make the leap" to all grain like it's some holy grail or something. Not everyone necessarily wants to take the time or make the commitment to brewing that way.

But I still don't get why folks assume that the white house beers weren't going to be basic extract batches. I would have been pleasantly surprised if it wasn't.


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Old 09-07-2012, 07:19 PM   #13
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Good beer can be made with extract, and so can bad beer be made with extract. The same applies to all grain. If good technique is used either can make great brew. A good recipe, good sanitization, pitching the proper amount of healthy yeast and fermentation temp control will go a long way towards making good beer.

The extract vs AG debate reminds me of when I started woodworking. The purists would all say you can only make good furniture if you hand cut dovetails. Guess what.... they make a very good jig that will do perfect dovetails using a router. Two ways to do things. A good craftsmancan use either to make the final product. A poor craftsman can make junk either way.

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Old 09-07-2012, 07:25 PM   #14
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Good beer can be made with extract, and so can bad beer be made with extract. The same applies to all grain. If good technique is used either can make great brew. A good recipe, good sanitization, pitching the proper amount of healthy yeast and fermentation temp control will go a long way towards making good beer.

The extract vs AG debate reminds me of when I started woodworking. The purists would all say you can only make good furniture if you hand cut dovetails. Guess what.... they make a very good jig that will do perfect dovetails using a router. Two ways to do things. A good craftsmancan use either to make the final product. A poor craftsman can make junk either way.
Exactly. The methods, or whether or not it's extract or AG is not what makes great beer. The Brewer should make great beer with whatever materials at hand.

I've tasted some great extracts and I've tasted some ****ty all grain batches. It all depends on the brewer and his process. Not whether it's an AG or an extract beer. Ag is not the holy grail of brewing. If you refuse to read a hydromter, don't pay attention to temp control, don't make a yeast starter for liquid, or pitch the right amount of yeast, and follow the 1-2-3 rule regardless of whether the yeast lagged for 72 hours or not, you're going to make crappy beer regardless of it being an extract or ag batch..

And if you do all those things that the AG brewer didn't, and use the freshest extract and do a full boil and late extract addition, you're going to make great if not award winning beers. It's that simple. I think people who blame extract for their crappy beers are copping out, and maybe should considering mastering them instead of thinking ag is going to be the answer to good tasting beer....
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:25 PM   #15
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AG gives you more control. If you do not know what you are trying to control then what is the point?

I have had some GREAT extract brews and I have personally made some gawd awful AG brews.

Brew on! (and get one for me.)

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Old 09-07-2012, 07:31 PM   #16
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AG gives you more control. If you do not know what you are trying to control then what is the point?


We still get AG brewers on here who we have to remind to use a hydrometer rather than an airlock to know what their beer is doing. Or any of the other basic process things that EVERY brewer should know/be doing regardless of what the brewer is using. Which shocks me because I use a hydromter (actually a refractometer these days) to gauge my mashing along the way. I couldn't ag brew without checking pre-boil and post boil gravities.
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:36 PM   #17
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Revvy thanks for that...As I sit here loling all I can think is, "Why so serious?" which just makes me lol more...

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Old 09-07-2012, 07:40 PM   #18
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Got the parts to fix the stove in a lil bit ago. So tonight will be a test run for tomorrow. Then I'll be doing my 1st partial mash & we'll see what all the fuss is about. The PM kit was $25,compared to $35-$50 for my extract recipes with Cooper's cans,Muntons DME's & hops. But those were 23L (6.072G) batches. The PM kit is 5G. What kills it somewhat is Fed-Ex home delivery from midwest at $11.41,there cheapest method short of USPS. Small price to pay,but I wish I could get'em off amazon,which has free super saver shipping. That's where I got the stove parts from,at a savings of about 55% over homer cheapo.
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:40 PM   #19
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AG gives you more control. If you do not know what you are trying to control then what is the point?

I have had some GREAT extract brews and I have personally made some gawd awful AG brews.

Brew on! (and get one for me.)
Yeah if it was a kit, but whats the difference if you buy some LME/DME, Steeping Grains and hops? Basically you've cut out the mash, but you are still going to get your own beer?
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:42 PM   #20
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Well so far I have done 5 batches all extract, that being said I have only tried my first batch a Robust Porter. Wich is much on the bitter side wich I know what whent wrong there. As fpr the other 4 I think those are going to turn out well. Thats if I had fresh kits. AG sounds nice and I would like to try but im just getting my feet wet and enjoying my brew days with my friends and family.
And im sure its alot faster and alot less clean up than AG. But if the outcome is good beers then I'll keep the kits going. I would love to be able to watch personally some people that do AG to see if it is for me. Im more of a person that can learn on more complicated things if im able to see it being done and can ask 100 questions. Cheers all!



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