Dry hopping problems?

Hi all, I am having a dry hopping problem. I made an experimental 5 gallon/20 liter batch ipa which was dry hopped with 30 grams of galaxy flower hops for seven days (after the main fermentation).

The beer was a success and so I started making batches of 40 gallons/150 liters, fermenting in 15 gallon/60 liter fermenters, and dry hopping with 90 grams of galaxy pellet hops for seven days (after the main fermentation). The beers, however, do not have anywhere near the same amount of aroma.

Can anyone tell me why this could be? The containers are exactly the same in shape, but are double the size obviously. I have considered that perhaps the pellet hops, which came in a vacuum sealed bag and are kept in my freezer, just aren't as potent as the original flower hops. My next batch will have 110 grams of hops for every 50 liters, but I wasn't sure if there was a more professional technique for dry hopping apart from dropping the hops into the fermenter.

Any ideas?

You didn't use enough hops in the dry hop to equal what you got from the original 5 gallons. with some simple math,8 X 5G = 40G. So 8 X 30g = 240g needed to get the same dry hop results as the original 5 gallon batch,in theory.

Mmmmm, just to make sure we are on the same page, the first batch was 5 gallons in 1 container with 30 grams of hops. The second batch was 40 gallons divided into 3 containers, each container being double the size of the original batch, and each container receiving 90 grams of hops (which is to say 270 grams total).

You are telling me 5 gallons of beer can dry hop with 30 grams perfectly, but 13 gallons of beer need more than 90 grams of hops?

I thought you might be using one large fermenter of 40G,so the amount suggested would be equal to a 5G fermenter amount. So 40G batch devided into three 13 1/3G in fermenters would use 80g each,again in theory. But in 15G fermenters,maybe the head space allowed more off gassing of co2,taking some of the aroma with it? Was the beer at a stable FG when you dry hopped? Were they settle out clear or slightly misty before adding drt hops?

sentfromspain said:

The first batch was 5 gallons in 1 container with 30 grams of hops. The second batch was 40 gallons divided into 3 containers, each container being double the size of the original batch

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If we're going to help you figure this you, you need to be crystal clear with your math. What you're writing doesn't make sense.

If you divided the second (40 gallon) batch into 3 containers, then each container was 13.3 gallons. But you said each container is double the size of the original batch, which was 5 gallons, meaning each container is 10 gallons.

How do you get 13.3 gallons of wort into a 10 gallon container?

Again, I'm sure we're just misunderstanding something, but that's kind of YOUR job to make it clear enough for us to help you.

The 5 gallons were fermentented in a 7.9 gallon fermenter, so it has about the same amount of headspace.

The beer is a 6.3% ipa that uses safale US05. The beer was cleaning up when I dropped in the hops (after seven days), and while I didn't notice any change in the FG before dry hopping and after, it could theoretically have dropped 1 or 2 points.

Sorry for the confusion Kombat. The first container was a 7.9 gallon / 30 liter fermenter. The second container was precisely a 15.8 gallon / 60 liter fermenter (which I mentioned in the original post, though I didn't include the decimals).

At 7 days into fermentation,the beer might've needed a bit more time to clean up & settle out clear or slightly misty. I do this before dry hopping 7 days for better aroma. Anything settling out during dry hopping will help loose aroma. The hop oils coat the settling yeast & trub cells/particles & cause less aroma in the finished porduct. Over & above the amount of dry hops to volume of beer.

unionrdr said:

The hop oils coat the settling yeast & trub cells/particles & cause less aroma in the finished porduct. Over & above the amount of dry hops to volume of beer.

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Also, escaping CO2 gas will carry away volatile hop aroma with it.

I suspect the OP simply dry-hopped too early. 7 days just doesn't seem like enough time to ensure fermentation has completely finished. I always give my beers 3 full weeks to ferment before adding dry hops.

He did say it was starting to clear at 7 days,so I figured there was a healthy yeast pitch. At proper pitching rates,beers can be done fermenting in 7 days. But it'd take another 3-7 days to settle out clear or slightly misty before dry hopping. So I figured he might've lost some hop oils to settling yeast cells & trub particles.

One of my problems is that I am working with a tight brewing schedule, and while I would love to be able to wait two weeks before dry hopping, I don't have the luxury.

Do you think upping the hop quantity to 2 grams per liter (or 330 grams for the 40 gallon batch) would help? Or would any possible CO2 scrubbing take away the aroma, no matter what quantity?

Well,that's the thing. settlings & co2 venting all contribute to aroma loss. So you need to let it settle out well before dry hopping. High flocculation yeasts can help with this as well.

union is right, fermentation is usually pretty much done after a week, but as I understand it, the beer can continue to off-gas for several more days, particularly in an environment with fluctuating temperature (as CO2 is more soluble in cold beer, so if the beer warms up, CO2 effervesces). Additionally, the action of dropping in the pellets themselves introduces nucleation points for dissolved CO2 to come out of solution. In my experience, the longer you leave the beer, the more opportunity you give that CO2 to leave on its own accord, minimizing the amount of precious, volatile hop aroma lost to CO2 off-gassing.

Well, I'll give it a go and let it ferment for two weeks instead of one. If it works out, then I will have to rehaul my brewing schedule... and it may eventually be for the best. Who knows.

FINALLY, after 3 more large batches and several weeks of fermentation I have come to the conclusion that the best way to maximize hop aroma is:

1) Wait until the beer is completely finished with fermentation (10 to 14 days)
2) Add 3 grams of hops for every liter. Fifty liters of beer needed 150 grams of hops to have a truly acceptable hop aroma. Less hops just won't cut it in my case.

The most probable cause for the aroma difference between the first experimental batch of IPA and the much larger batches of IPA was yeast interference and scrubbing. Recently, in a different batch where I added 2 grams of hops for every liter at flame out, I ended up with a beer that had zero hop aroma (using safale us-05). So this seems to be the most reasonable answer.

There is the possibility that the potency of leaf hops vs pellet hops could have been a factor, but as the potency of leaf hops decreases rapidly after opening a packet, the pellet hops are the best option all around (even if it means I have to add more of them for dry hopping). Making several hop additions did not improve the hop aroma, and the fermenting container type did not really change hop results. So I guess the best advice, like always, is to be patient

#duh