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Old 07-27-2012, 04:31 PM   #1
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Default Dopple Bock, Benefit of Laggering?

Hey guys! I just tried my first Dopple Bock, "Ayinger Celebrator Doppelbock", and I must say it was Delicious! It was very malty, had a pleasant sweet taste to it, all in all, just plain yummy!

I did some reading on the style, and apparently all Bock's are laggered, what I was wondering is, how much is laggering really contributing to such a big malty sweet beer? It seems like all the intense flavors from the malt would really just completely over bear the taste difference from it being laggerd vs not laggered.

I guess if one was to make a dopple bock with an ale yeast you would end up with something like "German-Russian Imperial Stout" .

Can anyone provide some insight on this here?

Thanks!

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Old 07-27-2012, 04:33 PM   #2
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It makes a lot of difference in cleaning up the malt flavors. Did you ferment at lager temps?

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Old 07-27-2012, 04:39 PM   #3
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I'm of the opinion you have to lager a doppelbock, and certainly use a lager yeast. With an ale yeast, even a "clean" one, you just won't get the clean malty flavor of a doppel. Extended lagering smooths out the flavors too, and lessens any alcohol burn. It's a relatively high gravity beer, the lagering diminshes the presence of the alcohol.

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Old 07-27-2012, 04:39 PM   #4
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Lagering actually contributes quite a bit to big malty beers, but not in the sense that adding ingredients 'contributes.' At its core, lagering is cold conditioning. Storing the beer at cold temperatures for a prolonged period of time helps create the clean profiles we associate with the style. In a big, malty beer, it gives it time for the alcohol is mellow into the mix, and gives the malt character time to meld together and aids in creating really nice balance and complexity.

If you were to use an ale yeast (lets exclude Kölsch yeasts for now), you would probably end up with more fruity esters or some other flavors not characteristic of lagers. It could be delicious, but not a lager proper. Possibly a German-RIS! I've used Kölsch yeast to achieve a pseudolager character, but never in a big malty beer like that. I imagine if you ferment in the high 50's you'd create a tasty beer.

Perhaps try both lagering and an ale yeast!

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Old 07-27-2012, 07:10 PM   #5
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I see, so here is my last question about it, does the clean malty profile have more to do with the fact it was aged for so long, or does it have more to deal with the fact that the lagger yeast fermented clean due to low fermentation temps.

I wonder how close one could get by using a Kolsch yeast and fermenting as low as you can get, and then just letting the beer age at room temp for an extended period of time.

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Old 07-27-2012, 07:24 PM   #6
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Try Aventinus Dopplebock...even better...bigger and drier, much less sweet.

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Old 07-27-2012, 09:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldWorld
Try Aventinus Dopplebock...even better...bigger and drier, much less sweet.
Aventinus is the bomb!
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlangfo5 View Post
I see, so here is my last question about it, does the clean malty profile have more to do with the fact it was aged for so long, or does it have more to deal with the fact that the lagger yeast fermented clean due to low fermentation temps.

I wonder how close one could get by using a Kolsch yeast and fermenting as low as you can get, and then just letting the beer age at room temp for an extended period of time.
I don't think it would be all that close. Lager yeast is a different species of yeast, and is fermented at 50 degrees or so. As a result, you get "clean" flavors without esters or other yeast characteristics that you get with ale yeast.

The process of lagering drops out polyphenols and excess yeast, and causes a smoother, "crisper" finish.

You can certainly make an ale with the same ingredients, and make a good beer. But it won't be a dopplebock.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:52 PM   #9
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Lagering isn't just conditioning. Lagers are only 60-70% done fermenting when they are cooled to lager temps. The fermentation really has to finish and conditioning is done at the same time. So doing an ale fermentation and then letting the bottles condition for a month (or three) won't get you the same clean taste as a lager. Not saying it won't be delicious, but it won't be the same. I don't think I'd even consider a Dopplebock without lagering it, but homebrewing is all about experimentation and individuality. Try it both ways, or if you can't easily lager, buy one from a store to compare to yours. I think you'll find a dramatic difference.

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