*Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway - Enter Now!*

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Beer Discussion > Dme is pure evil
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-26-2012, 08:37 PM   #21
sweetcell
Swollen Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
sweetcell's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,079
Liked 657 Times on 489 Posts
Likes Given: 255

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyhitch1 View Post
...if you ask me id rather use devil powder than liquid sludge LME
LME is the devil's snot.
__________________
.
What hops should I grow? Hop grower's comparison table. Looking for cheap honey?

Drinking: a farmhouse with ECY08 & brett blend, wet-hopped harvest ale x 2, second runnings dark ale with vanilla
Fermenting: (nothing active)
Aging: imperial chocolate stout, sour cherry mead, oud bruin & a few other sours, acerglyn, a BDSA
sweetcell is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-06-2012, 06:39 AM   #22
sweetcell
Swollen Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
sweetcell's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,079
Liked 657 Times on 489 Posts
Likes Given: 255

Default

to everyone in this thread who said "DME is no big deal", "operator error", "practice makes perfect", etc - GO EFF YOURSELVES. you obviously don't live in the swamp that is the national capital region. the humidity here ensures that DME clumps together while still inside the bag. you can't even get to it before it becomes the world's stickiest goo. all those suggestions about using a funnel ARE USELESS if you can't get the damn stuff out of the bag. the DME at the bottom of the bag is nice and powdery, unfortunately it's blocked by a ring of gunk that was created by contact between DME near the opening and ambient humidity. said gunk forms an air-tight seal between the still-powdery DME and the outside world.

yes, i'm pissed off at DME right now. again

__________________
.
What hops should I grow? Hop grower's comparison table. Looking for cheap honey?

Drinking: a farmhouse with ECY08 & brett blend, wet-hopped harvest ale x 2, second runnings dark ale with vanilla
Fermenting: (nothing active)
Aging: imperial chocolate stout, sour cherry mead, oud bruin & a few other sours, acerglyn, a BDSA
sweetcell is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-06-2012, 07:14 AM   #23
brewingmeister
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: middle of nowhere
Posts: 1,857
Liked 171 Times on 126 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

I'm with you man. I measured out some dme on a paper plate for a starter the other day. In the time it took to seal up the bag it had formed a layer of satin skin surrounding the small mound. I go to pour it off the plate and it only comes out of the cracks in the thick skin that has formed like a dme pimple. Then some of the skin still remains and there is also a nice thick layer of dme quickly turning into an evil version of silly putty on the bottom. A knife couldn't get it off because the dme had rendered the once sharp chefs knife no longer sharp but dull, sticky and useless. Basically the knife had become a pry bar.

Dme's never ending goal is to turn into lme and anger everyone coming in contact with it.

__________________
............Alright Brain, you don't like me, and I don't like you. But lets just do this, and I can get back to killing you with beer......~Homer
brewingmeister is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-06-2012, 07:30 AM   #24
bottlebomber
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ukiah, CA
Posts: 14,274
Liked 2664 Times on 2075 Posts
Likes Given: 311

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcell
to everyone in this thread who said "DME is no big deal", "operator error", "practice makes perfect", etc - GO EFF YOURSELVES. you obviously don't live in the swamp that is the national capital region. the humidity here ensures that DME clumps together while still inside the bag. you can't even get to it before it becomes the world's stickiest goo. all those suggestions about using a funnel ARE USELESS if you can't get the damn stuff out of the bag. the DME at the bottom of the bag is nice and powdery, unfortunately it's blocked by a ring of gunk that was created by contact between DME near the opening and ambient humidity. said gunk forms an air-tight seal between the still-powdery DME and the outside world.

yes, i'm pissed off at DME right now. again
In that case, I think the name of your thread should been "Maryland Sucks". I visited there most summers for a good part of my youth and the humidity is unbelievable for a CA boy. It's every bit as bad as standing in a bathroom with the shower on hot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by passedpawn
I hate DME.

I'm gonna let a little secret slip: I use table sugar, yeast nutrients, and a dash of olive oil for every starter. Don't knock it till you try it folks.
You, my friend, are a gentleman and a scholar. I have been thinking about this but just needed the nudge.
__________________
bottlebomber is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-06-2012, 08:01 AM   #25
emjay
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
emjay's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 12,694
Liked 1714 Times on 1602 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwarbiany
BTW, I don't like boiling in the flask anyway. I have a nice scar on my hand next to my thumb from a major burn when I tried doing that back in 2007...
How did you burn yourself like that? Boiling in the flask is the best method, but safety has to always be kept in mind, so it'd be a good idea to let people know so they can learn from your mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golddiggie
I just use my 8qt stainless pot for starters. I make enough for either my 2L or 3L flask that way. I'm too concerned about breaking the flask on the stove to boil mine that way.

How many that boil in the flask also use fermcap before it hits a boil? I use it in mine so that I prevent issues, even with the pot.
I always use Fermcap-S any time I boil wort, whether it's for a 2 liter starter or a 10 gallon batch. Even a 5 gallon batch in my 20 gallon Blichmann kettle gets the Fermcap... I've had boilovers even when the wort only takes up ¼ of the kettle

Boilovers are even easier in a flask, and they'll volcano in an instant. I've had such boilovers in my flasks even with the recommended amount of Fermcap, so starters get a big dose! In fact, I easily use more in a starter than for a whole batch that's *50 times the size*!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcell
to everyone in this thread who said "DME is no big deal", "operator error", "practice makes perfect", etc - GO EFF YOURSELVES. you obviously don't live in the swamp that is the national capital region. the humidity here ensures that DME clumps together while still inside the bag. you can't even get to it before it becomes the world's stickiest goo. all those suggestions about using a funnel ARE USELESS if you can't get the damn stuff out of the bag. the DME at the bottom of the bag is nice and powdery, unfortunately it's blocked by a ring of gunk that was created by contact between DME near the opening and ambient humidity. said gunk forms an air-tight seal between the still-powdery DME and the outside world.

yes, i'm pissed off at DME right now. again
Don't listen to them, it's definitely a one-D ten-T error.

It's often near 100% RH here in the summer, but I've never had that problem. Yes, it gets sticky, but it shouldn't be too sticky to get out of the bag unless the bag has been previously opened and either allowed to get sticky, or not sealed back up properly (ie completely airtight).

It's interesting how many people have said they roll up paper for a funnel. I've always done the same because it can be "modified" if the hole starts to get plugged, whereas with a plastic funnel, I had to constantly use a pencil to push it through the hole.

In the end, it ain't that difficult:

DME goes in first, and then water done in such a way to get all the DME stuck to the side of the neck as it goes in. DME dissolves more easily in cold water. I swirl it until it's all dissolved, and then add the stirbar and generous amounts of yeast nutrient and Fermcap-S. Start heating the flask and keep it on for 10 minutes of boiling time. With a few minutes left, I put the foam stopper in the neck of the flask... the steam goes right through it, sanitizing the stopper without building up pressure in the flask.

Remove it directly to an icebath in my sink, and once it's at pitching temp, I take the yeast out of the fridge, lift up the stopper, pitch the cold yeast straight in (this is actually better than letting the yeast warm up to around pitch temp... true story), put the stopper back in, and set it up on my stirplate...

...and the rest depends on whether I want to decant (and again, pitch it into the batch at fridge temps), or to "hit the ground running" by pitching at high krausen.
__________________
emjay is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-06-2012, 08:06 AM   #26
Dan
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Dan's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Makakilo, Hawaii
Posts: 6,241
Liked 1914 Times on 1183 Posts
Likes Given: 2742

Default

Emjay, You're the second person I've heard mention adding refrigerated temp yeast to cooled wort. Where did you learn about this?

__________________
Dan is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-06-2012, 08:35 AM   #27
emjay
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
emjay's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 12,694
Liked 1714 Times on 1602 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bottlebomber
You, my friend, are a gentleman and a scholar. I have been thinking about this but just needed the nudge.
Danger, Will Robinson!

If you decide to actually go that route, approach it scientifically and make sure your experiments thoroughly cover the circumstances your yeast will actually cover (eg, testing all the way to the 4th generation if you expect to use your yeast to 4 generations). And multiple times, of course. I did, and while it doesn't instantly lose the ability to ferment maltose as if some magical switch has suddenly been flipped, its health and performance was usually inferior (and NEVER superior) to the controls, and the difference became more pronounced with each subsequent generation.

Obviously, this is something you want to believe, so I'm not going to tell you not to try it, but I'm confident that if you test it properly, you'll make the same conclusions yourself. Make sure you have controls, as you'll only be able to judge it by comparison... far too many people here "test" methods they want to believe in, and then consider it a success when the method "works". Of course you'll still end up with beer, and often even very good beer, but the question is whether or not it's BETTER beer. And in the case of using table sugar for starters, my results were a resounding "no", but if I didn't have the controls for comparison, I would only have been able to conclude that it "works" - and it certainly does, most of the time - but you have to decide whether that's good enough for you. For me, it's not. Even if DME for a starter greatly increased the overall cost per batch compared to using sucrose (and really, it doesn't), I just wouldn't be able to justify the differences that I observed.

What I'm trying to say, is that confirmation bias is a bitch. A seductress, even. If you end up determining that sucrose is best for you, then that's fine. I'm just encouraging you to test it out properly, so that you don't end up thinking it's a good idea just because you really want it to be a good idea, a trap I've seen countless brewers fall into.
__________________
emjay is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-06-2012, 08:44 AM   #28
thegerm
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Wallington, NJ
Posts: 393
Liked 10 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

I make the hugest messes and burn myself half the time also whenever I try to boil DME in my 2L flask directly. So I bought a 12 pack of 1 quart mason jars from the grocery store and just boil up 2 gallons or so worth of starter wort at a time in my 3 gallon stockpot and then can the starter wort in the mason jars (which I sanitize with starsan). It's not the boil it all to hell and gone method of traditional canning, but starsan hasn't done me wrong so far.

No more boiling in the flask this way. just sanitize the flask, dump in 1 or 2 jars worth of starter wort as needed and pitch the vial.

__________________
thegerm is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-06-2012, 08:49 AM   #29
emjay
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
emjay's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 12,694
Liked 1714 Times on 1602 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan
Emjay, You're the second person I've heard mention adding refrigerated temp yeast to cooled wort. Where did you learn about this?
Honestly, I don't recall. I'd have to dig really deep into my notes, as I've been doing it for a while now. But it is certainly supported by the science.

When you refrigerate yeast, it starts building up glycogen reserves as it cools down. When you take the yeast out of the fridge and let it warm up, it starts consuming he glycogen; by the time it's at pitching temp and pitched into wort, they'll be all used up. Pitching it cold allows it to use the glycogen reserves optimally.

So-called "thermal shock" just isn't an issue in this particular "direction"... that is, cold yeast into a warmer environment. It's more of an issue when introducing warmer yeast into a colder environment. Many brewers know from experience that sudden temperature drops can stall a yeast, even if it happens to be at a temperature that it can usually ferment at. There's really no reason to suggest that suddenly *warming* yeast up to within its optimal range would cause similar issues.
__________________
emjay is offline
Gduck Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-06-2012, 12:57 PM   #30
Dan
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Dan's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Makakilo, Hawaii
Posts: 6,241
Liked 1914 Times on 1183 Posts
Likes Given: 2742

Default

Thanks Emjay!

__________________
Dan is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Big Red Evil Twin chuggin' away platypotamus General Beer Discussion 5 07-16-2010 10:21 PM
*Caution* Beer Is Evil idle General Beer Discussion 138 06-20-2010 06:02 PM
Jamil's Evil Twin WildGingerBrewing General Beer Discussion 8 04-01-2010 06:34 PM
100% pure awesome SmugMug General Beer Discussion 10 07-24-2009 12:16 PM
best stone micron size for pure oxygen? Beeratier General Beer Discussion 2 10-14-2006 12:53 AM