The Difference Between Porter and Stout?

Zythophile · 10-30-2009, 10:48 AM

Saying that stouts use roasted barley and porters don't is an entirely artificial distinction, and certainly has no historical basis. Until 1880 in Britain using roasted barley was illegal, so neither stouts not porters used it. Guinness never used roasted barley at all, it appears, until around 1930 and when Guinness did start using roasted barley it went into both the stout and the porter. Stout used to be simply the name for strong porter (or strong beer of any sort): today,with many beers described as "stouts" being weaker than some beers described as porters, that distinction has been lost, and there is no meaningful line - certainly not a historically meaningful one - that can be drawn between modern stouts and modern porters.

**flyangler18** · 10-30-2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zythophile

Saying that stouts use roasted barley and porters don't is an entirely artificial distinction, and certainly has no historical basis. Until 1880 in Britain using roasted barley was illegal, so neither stouts not porters used it. Guinness never used roasted barley at all, it appears, until around 1930 and when Guinness did start using roasted barley it went into both the stout and the porter. Stout used to be simply the name for strong porter (or strong beer of any sort): today,with many beers described as "stouts" being weaker than some beers described as porters, that distinction has been lost, and there is no meaningful line - certainly not a historically meaningful one - that can be drawn between modern stouts and modern porters.

Martyn Cornell! Awesome, another beer historian.

Your book is fantastic!

**pdbreen** · 10-30-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyangler18

Martyn Cornell! Awesome, another beer historian.

Your book is fantastic!

Looks like another good book is in the works (Amber, Gold and Black). Looking forward to it (and welcome!).

**phatuna** · 10-30-2009, 06:01 PM

Welcome Martyn, great to have you here!

hamiltont · 10-30-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamiltont

Correct. At a very, very basic level. Stout=roasted barley. Porter=no roasted barley. After that it gets real confusing....

I guess I was basing my comment on Papazian's statement:

"Porter- A traditional description of this style would be hard to come by and likely to be controversial. It is a dark ale; unlike stout its character does not come from roasted barley but more from dark malts. Generally, it is medium- to full-bodied with varying degrees of sweetness and hop character.

Historically, it was a style of ale that was the granddaddy of today's stout. Porter was the common drink and often homebrewed. Its character was expressed with a wild assortment of adjuncts, hers, and miscellaneous ingredients. Arthur Guinness and Sons in Ireland originally brewed it commercially. When the alcoholic strength of porter was boosted, it was described as stout porter. The name stout was soon soon adopted for this style."

GuitarBob · 10-30-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zythophile

Saying that stouts use roasted barley and porters don't is an entirely artificial distinction, and certainly has no historical basis. Until 1880 in Britain using roasted barley was illegal, so neither stouts not porters used it. Guinness never used roasted barley at all, it appears, until around 1930 and when Guinness did start using roasted barley it went into both the stout and the porter. Stout used to be simply the name for strong porter (or strong beer of any sort): today,with many beers described as "stouts" being weaker than some beers described as porters, that distinction has been lost, and there is no meaningful line - certainly not a historically meaningful one - that can be drawn between modern stouts and modern porters.

I thought Arthur Guinness bought unmalted barley instead of malt, and roasted it himself so he didn't have to pay the tax on malt.

According to the story I was told he accidently roasted the barley too long, but decided to brew with it anyways, and the first dry stout was born.

Of course there seems to be alot of storys surrounding Guinness, and it's hard to tell whats true.

Keith_Mahoney · 10-31-2009, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBob

I thought Arthur Guinness bought unmalted barley instead of malt, and roasted it himself so he didn't have to pay the tax on malt.

According to the story I was told he accidently roasted the barley too long, but decided to brew with it anyways, and the first dry stout was born.

Of course there seems to be alot of storys surrounding Guinness, and it's hard to tell whats true.

I think that's the story they told us when I visited the Guinness Experience in Dublin last month. Then again I was already drinking and I had a lot of questions no one could answer so even if I remember correctly doesn't mean the tour guide was spouting the historical truth.

**Orfy** · 10-31-2009, 09:57 AM

Simply put.

Stout is a type of Porter.

**Laughing_Gnome_Invisible** · 10-31-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyangler18

Martyn Cornell! Awesome, another beer historian.

Your book is fantastic!

I've not read the book, but I am thrilled to have another beer history expert on the forum. I just LOVE the beer history threads when they turn up!

**Orfy** · 10-31-2009, 11:04 AM

Regarding beer history
BMC have **** us over again.

They have closed the beer Museum at Burton on Trent!

http://www.bass-museum.com/

There is no longer a place where the public can see the history of beer in the worlds brewing capital.

I'm glad I got chance to visit before the wankers closed it!

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