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Old 10-21-2010, 04:40 PM   #11
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Anyone else think that maybe tannins could be confused with cat piss? That's just a thought, and would make me look at the sparge process.......I agree though that it may well be the hops, and also with changing one thing at a time to find out the cause.
I certainly have had mashing/sparging issues, but I never boiled any grain or ever achieved a grain temp over 170, and I'm a very thorough temp measurer. I don't think it's a grain or mash issue, those are totally different issues with efficiency and process that I'm working out.

I've never thought of tannins as being stinky. I think of them like oak and raisins in mead or cyser, like tannic wine. Is barley tannin much different, stronger and pissy?
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:54 PM   #12
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Batch #2: Primary about 18 days then bottled yesterday. The dryhop was for about 8 days.

I've never had a commercial IPA that I didn't like. So I assumed I'd like the C-hops that are so prevalent.
I don't see it listed that you used any of the 3 C's (Cascade/Centennial/CTZ), although Amarillo is somewhat close to Centennial.
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And I'd like to see my 1.080 beers ready from grain to glass in a week, and served to me by red-headed twin penthouse pets wearing garter belts and fishnet stockings, with Irish accents, calling me "master luv gun," but we can't always get what we want can we? :)
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:58 PM   #13
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Batch 1 had cascades, Batch 2 had Citra.

But the bulk of #1 was simcoe, and the bulk of #2 was Amarillo.

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Old 10-21-2010, 05:03 PM   #14
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I certainly have had mashing/sparging issues, but I never boiled any grain or ever achieved a grain temp over 170, and I'm a very thorough temp measurer. I don't think it's a grain or mash issue, those are totally different issues with efficiency and process that I'm working out.

I've never thought of tannins as being stinky. I think of them like oak and raisins in mead or cyser, like tannic wine. Is barley tannin much different, stronger and pissy?
It was just a thought, and something i might look at after the possible hop selection issue. I had taste problems when I was fly sparging, and I might have described my off tastes in a similar way.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:05 PM   #15
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I'd give the Amarillo batch more time to condition to see if those "Cat Piss" flavors are still there. Did you get that smell from the hops before you tossed them in the brew? I'm not sure that this second batch has the hops to blame.

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And I'd like to see my 1.080 beers ready from grain to glass in a week, and served to me by red-headed twin penthouse pets wearing garter belts and fishnet stockings, with Irish accents, calling me "master luv gun," but we can't always get what we want can we? :)
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:35 PM   #16
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That's what I was thinking too. Neither hop schedule smelled pissy to begin with. And just to stickle, it isn't the flavor, it's the aroma that is strong pissy. The flavor of #1 isn't all that bad, and of course the flavor of #2 is too young for me to make a judgement on. It's the aroma of both that concern me. And it isn't "mild" notes of cat piss... it's straight up cat piss. SWMBO identified it as cat piss as well, with no prompting or prejudice from reading anything or knowing anything about it. She is in charge of our cat's litterbox, she is very familiar with the aroma of cat urine. That's what concerns me the most. Because of all the other catty descriptions I've read here about Simcoe, I just assumed that's what it was, until I get the same affect on non-simcoe batch #2... blah blah now I'm just repeating myself.

I innoculated a gallon of cider with Batch #2 trub (us-05) this morning, unwashed. If it also smells like cat piss, I'll know I've got a serious problem.

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Old 10-21-2010, 05:45 PM   #17
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That's what I was thinking too. Neither hop schedule smelled pissy to begin with. And just to stickle, it isn't the flavor, it's the aroma that is strong pissy. The flavor of #1 isn't all that bad, and of course the flavor of #2 is too young for me to make a judgement on. It's the aroma of both that concern me. And it isn't "mild" notes of cat piss... it's straight up cat piss. SWMBO identified it as cat piss as well, with no prompting or prejudice from reading anything or knowing anything about it. She is in charge of our cat's litterbox, she is very familiar with the aroma of cat urine. That's what concerns me the most. Because of all the other catty descriptions I've read here about Simcoe, I just assumed that's what it was, until I get the same affect on non-simcoe batch #2... blah blah now I'm just repeating myself.

I innoculated a gallon of cider with Batch #2 trub (us-05) this morning, unwashed. If it also smells like cat piss, I'll know I've got a serious problem.
Do you ferment in clear glass or plastic? Maybe light-struck to some degree?
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And I'd like to see my 1.080 beers ready from grain to glass in a week, and served to me by red-headed twin penthouse pets wearing garter belts and fishnet stockings, with Irish accents, calling me "master luv gun," but we can't always get what we want can we? :)
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Old 10-21-2010, 10:11 PM   #18
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I thought I answered this 4 hours ago... sigh


Batch 1:

Plastic, indoors, covered in blanket but in an artificially lit room.


Batch 2
Plastic fermenter, covered in blanket and zipped up in a coat, outdoors, but gets some daylight.

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Old 10-23-2010, 01:29 AM   #19
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http://brewiki.org/BeerFlavours

According to this flavor wheel, the two things I most associate these brews with are Catty and Moldy, which are both in the "Oxidized, Stale" area. Now I'm more confused than ever. There was always a nose burning layer of CO2 in the fermenter, and I used a siphon to transfer to bottling bucket, and hose to bottle, with minimal splashing. And with batch 2, I noticed the funny smell during transfer, before any oxidation should have even occured.

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Old 10-23-2010, 02:15 AM   #20
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http://brewiki.org/BeerFlavours

According to this flavor wheel, the two things I most associate these brews with are Catty and Moldy, which are both in the "Oxidized, Stale" area. Now I'm more confused than ever. There was always a nose burning layer of CO2 in the fermenter, and I used a siphon to transfer to bottling bucket, and hose to bottle, with minimal splashing. And with batch 2, I noticed the funny smell during transfer, before any oxidation should have even occured.

I doubt it was oxidation, you have to try pretty hard to oxidize your beer and even then it takes a little time to stale. I'm blaming the hops or the yeast, did you happen to mention what yeast you used with these two beers?
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And I'd like to see my 1.080 beers ready from grain to glass in a week, and served to me by red-headed twin penthouse pets wearing garter belts and fishnet stockings, with Irish accents, calling me "master luv gun," but we can't always get what we want can we? :)
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