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Old 01-27-2011, 07:04 PM   #1
Super64
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Default Carbing In A Growler

I have seen several threads here concerning carbing beer in bottles, growlers and modified growlers.

In Maine there is an establishment called Federal Jacks, that sells their "made on site" beer in growlers and six packs. The Master Brewer there is Alan Pugsley, who is also the Master Brewer at The Shipyard Brewing Company, which is also in Maine.

At their website you can send an email to the company officers, which I did, asking Alan if it was possible for a home brewer to carbonate their beer in a Fed Jack's growler.

Mr. Pugsley forward the email to his growler supplier. Since no one has ever asked them that question, it was forwarded it the bottle manufacturer.

Below is their reply:

The bottle print for GX-20913 states:
"This container is designed for non-pasteurized products up to and
including 2.4 gas volumes that are hand filled from a bar tap. This item
is not designed for use on an automatic conveying system, or for use with
automatic fillers."


I think that means "yes" to growler carbing.....

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Old 01-27-2011, 07:14 PM   #2
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Sounds like "yes" to filling growlers with carbed beer, not carbing in the growlers. Or am I missing something?

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Old 01-27-2011, 07:20 PM   #3
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i would assume you could since the design spec is for 2.4. and there is probably a safety factor on top of that, so if i were you i would give it a try just don't exceed 2.5, saying that the safety factor it at that limit.

the worst that will happen is a bottle bomb... and you have to clean up a mess.... but you could put it in a bucket or something... and try it

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Old 01-27-2011, 07:23 PM   #4
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Before you do so, make sure you are positive as to how beer is naturally carbonated. I'm not sure if CO2 pressure peaks in the head space before being fully absorbed into the beer.

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Old 01-27-2011, 07:25 PM   #5
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"up to 2.4 gas volumes that are hand filled from a bar tap" -- does not equate to carbonating in the container. They are talking about beer that is already carbed.

Do what you want, it is your eye!

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Old 01-27-2011, 07:39 PM   #6
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*slams head against the wall*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super64 View Post
I have seen several threads here concerning carbing beer in bottles, growlers and modified growlers.

In Maine there is an establishment called Federal Jacks, that sells their "made on site" beer in growlers and six packs. The Master Brewer there is Alan Pugsley, who is also the Master Brewer at The Shipyard Brewing Company, which is also in Maine.

At their website you can send an email to the company officers, which I did, asking Alan if it was possible for a home brewer to carbonate their beer in a Fed Jack's growler.

Mr. Pugsley forward the email to his growler supplier. Since no one has ever asked them that question, it was forwarded it the bottle manufacturer.

Below is their reply:

The bottle print for GX-20913 states:
"This container is designed for non-pasteurized products up to and
including 2.4 gas volumes that are hand filled from a bar tap. This item
is not designed for use on an automatic conveying system, or for use with
automatic fillers."


I think that means "yes" to growler carbing.....
I don't read his letter as saying it can be used to carb beer up, I read it as saying it can hold 2.4 volumes of carbonated beer. That has nothing to do with the amount of pressure created during carbonation.

I think he danced around actually answering your question actually. He didn't come out unequvicably yes. He ONLY told you how many Volumes the growler is rated for.

Hand filled at the bar tap means the beer was already carbed at the time it was put it the growler.

Carbed beer and carbonating beer are 2 seperate things, I don't get why people can't grasp that simple fact.


To carb a beer whether or not is is done naturally or with co2 you are forcing the gas into the solution. The pressure builds up, then there's a point where either the bottle fails or the co2, seeking the path of least resistance, forces itself into solution. You could call it a peak point, where there is a lot of pressure in the bottle, both already in solution and in the headspace trying to go into the solution, eventually it balances out and the beer is carbed.

Beer bottles, champagne bottles and kegs are rated with a higher psi/volume of co2 than wine bottles and growlers.

Already carbed and kegged beer is at a stable volume of co2 which is below the volume that growlers and winebottles are rated at. The FORCING of the co2 already happened. Why do you think kegs are made of metal and very very strong? To handle the pressure.

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Originally Posted by RukusDM View Post
This is because during carbing, the pressure can go above 30 or 40 PSI. I have a thread in the cider forum where I did several tests bottle carbing sweet hard cider. There is allot of data there if your interested.

I have a bottle with a pressure gauge on it. I recorded pressures during the carbing process. This is how the data was generated. I also recorded pressures while pasteurizing the cider.

I recently bottled some lager I made. I also filled my gauge bottle and my lower pressure gauge bottle pegged at 35 PSI as that was the limit of the gauge. It probably ended up in the 40's, but no way to tell for sure.


When we bottle condition beer, we are really simulating force carbing like the keg folks do. We cause a ferment by adding sugar. This creates a high pressure in the bottle. CO2 doesn't like to dissolve in a warm liquid. We then put some bottles in the fridge. The temperature of the liquid drops and the CO2 then begins to dissolve in the liquid.

It seems to take several days at fridge temperatures for the CO2 to fully saturate the liquid for a maximum saturation for that liquid temperature.

While the CO2 is moving into the liquid, the pressure slowly drops. I've monitored this process as well with the pressure gauge.

Pressures go way higher than folks think while bottle conditioning. In the following data, I carbed sweet hard cider and stopped the carbing and then pasteurized the cider when the bottle was at 22 PSI. My Lager went above 35 PSI. The data doesn't show the extremes the pressure rises with beer as I stopped the cider at 22 PSI, but it would have continued if i hadn't stopped it.

The gauge bottle has a nice side effect, it tells you when your bottles are conditioned as the pressure rise stops. I then throw them in the Fridge to cold condition for several days before I open. The gauge also tells you when they are carbed as the pressure drop stops. Pretty basic really.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/bott...review-205862/

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Originally Posted by RukusDM View Post
No, when you bottle condition, the slight fermentation we cause by adding priming sugar just builds pressure up in the bottle. The pressures seem to go up into the 30's and 40's PSI from what I've seen.

The CO2 doesn't really move into the liquid until the temperature drops. Some CO2 may, but not the majority of it. CO2 doesn't dissolve into solution until a lower temperature.

This is really what we do when we force carb in a keg. We raise the pressure up when the beer is cold. The CO2 moves into the solution. The tap pressure is lowered for proper delivery and the beer either sets for cold aging, or it is consumed at that time.

What you would see with the pressure gauge (if you use one bigger than my first bottle had. Should use a 100 PSI Gauge) is that the pressure climbs over time and will level off.

Once the pressure levels off, that means all of the priming sugar has been used up by the yeast. Next, you put them into the fridge. You will see the pressure drop over several days. Eventually, it also will level off. I like to let them sit for a few more days after that, but really if the pressure stops dropping, all of the CO2 that can be dissolved at that temperature has been achieved.
.
I think it goes down to this.....is it worth playing Russian Roulette with your money and the time you spent bringing your brew along from grain to bottling day???

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Old 01-27-2011, 11:37 PM   #7
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I can't be sure, but there's a chance Revvy doesn't think it's a good idea...

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Old 01-28-2011, 01:18 AM   #8
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There are thick, brown, flip-top, 33.4oz/1 l's that may be better suited for this application:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewin...flip-tops.html

One other issue is that you may have to pour the entire growler at once, not to disturb the larger amount of sediment.

I like 22's, and will stick with them.

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Old 01-28-2011, 01:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortyjacobs View Post
I can't be sure, but there's a chance Revvy doesn't think it's a good idea...
bwahahaha. he shuts em down again.
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Old 01-28-2011, 01:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hex View Post
There are thick, brown, flip-top, 33.4oz/1 l's that may be better suited for this application:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewin...flip-tops.html

One other issue is that you may have to pour the entire growler at once, not to disturb the larger amount of sediment.

I like 22's, and will stick with them.
I got this one from NB for Christmas:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewin...ic-handle.html

I didn't even hesitate to bottle and natural carb in it. Been sitting in the basement for a little over 3 weeks now. Haven't had an issue. That lid, gasket, and clamp are pretty heavy duty. Then again, I didn't even think about the relative strength of the glass itself.
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